If you're hauling a T on an open trailer.....

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: If you're hauling a T on an open trailer.....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 10:08 am:

....how would YOU go about tying it down, in the safest way, and one that will not put too much strain on the car?

I'm not looking for answers that say remove the floorboards, as that's a given. I just want to know your methods of TYING it down.

I'm planning an 11 hour trip to take it back to my father's house so he can ride in it.

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 10:18 am:

Rear axle and front frame are my preferred method.

If you tie to the front axle you are just pulling on the engine pan/wishbone ball and they been known to come apart. I added a bracket on the frame/spring connection for a tie down.



Of course this issue has been discussed many time and other have different ideas.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/216527.html?1314883222

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/175801.html?1292282328

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 10:37 am:

However you tie it down i would not use chains but straps with latched hook's.If you have a wooden deck or floor i think i would also use 4 pair of those cheap plastic wheel chock's and screw them down.What duz the forum comercial hauller do?? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Georgetown Ontario Canada on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 10:44 am:

When I had my open trailer, I used 4 long straps. Two from the front axle to the back of the trailer, crossed, and two from the back axle to the front of the trailer crossed.

Worked like a charm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 10:48 am:

I use slack chains and chain binders with the chain binders handles tied down. The car bounces some just as if it was driving on the road.



Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Georgetown Ontario Canada on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 10:49 am:

You can see the straps in this picture:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 10:57 am:

What body style are you talking about?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 11:03 am:

I have "E-Trac" on both my open & enclosed trailers. On the front I use wheel nets and on the rear I use fabric axle straps grabbed around the spring right up next to the frame cross member and cross with ratchet straps.

Being in the T repair business, I trailer a lot of dead T's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Husa on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 11:08 am:

Front axle tied down!
I have seen TWO pre 1915 T's had were damaged by chaining down the front axle. Not a scratch to the car! They were both on the same trailer and two vehicle and trailer separated. The trailed came to an abrupt stop and caused both T's to be damaged. The wishbones and the front ends were both rolled over an who knows what other damage to the pan/fly wheel! Never got the whole story just observed the aftermath.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 11:45 am:

I like to put my straps around the crossmembers above the leaf springs for both front and rear. I've done lots of hauling like this. It is very solid.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 11:48 am:

I have an enclosed trailer with E-track. I use four wheel nets to secure the car. This method leaves the vehicles natural suspension unrestricted. Wheel nets are used by many towing companies.

I am not a fan of tieing the front and rear axles in opposite directions (a.k.a. "The Rack") - it puts a lot of stress on the four small bolts that hold the rear end to the motor.

Be_Zero_Be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 12:03 pm:

Couldn't one make the argument that the wheel nets put a lot of stress on the wooden spokes?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 12:15 pm:

Wheel nets should not put more stress on the wheels then driving on the road. I suppose that if the front wheels were the only thing that kept the car from moving forward and back, then that force would be transferred to the wishbone/pan. Unlike modern cars with front brakes, the front axle was not designed for much force in line with the car.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 12:31 pm:

Other then tieing the car on a open trailer, the other concern is how is the top going to hold up traveling at nearly twice the speed as normal driving speed? Top up or down? How to to tie it down? Here is a past thread:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/133756.html?1270596373


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 01:13 pm:

The top has to be down on a roadster or touring and extra ties placed around the section that is closest to the front and hooked in those two eyelets.

The hood also has to have extra tie downs on each side between the lift handle and latches.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 01:22 pm:

Bob,
How about strapping the rear axle to pads in FRONT of the car and the front to pads aft of the car in an "X" fashion? The straps would be running the full length of the car (underneath it) plus a little more.

That would result in stress like closing an accordion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 01:48 pm:

If you're renting a tandem trailer, it probably is sprung to haul a 6,000 lb car, and it will be a very rough ride for a T. Although I'm not recommending it, one way to help is to let some air out of the trailer tires...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 01:54 pm:

"I have seen TWO pre 1915 T's had were damaged by chaining down the front axle. Not a scratch to the car! They were both on the same trailer and two vehicle and trailer separated. The trailed came to an abrupt stop and caused both T's to be damaged. The wishbones and the front ends were both rolled over..."

Thanks, Steve. That's a good example of the dangerous early wishbone.

Chains shouldn't be used, either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Georgetown Ontario Canada on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 02:05 pm:

John Aldrich - the way you describe is exactly how I do it, hard to see in the picture, but the straps squeeze the car, not pull it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 03:17 pm:

As long as we have a picture,i wonder what the little red Dodge weigh's and what the T and trailer weigh?? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 03:30 pm:

I use axle straps around the rear axle and ratchet straps to the trailer and axle straps around the front cross member and ratchet straps too the trailer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Georgetown Ontario Canada on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 05:01 pm:

Ken, The little red dodge had the 4.7 V8 and weighed in at 4700 lbs. T weighs 1800, trailer at about 1800. Electric brakes on both axles of the trailer, and a good sway bar set up. Pulled and stopped no problem. Once I purchased my enclosed trailer, it was time to buy a bigger truck :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 05:17 pm:

Greg,With the longer WB,weight,tow set up it look's way better than some of the little weenie car's mentioned in another thread!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 05:29 pm:

OK, the car is a touring, the top will be down, and the entire car tied with a tarp.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Georgetown Ontario Canada on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 05:32 pm:

Bill,
Don't wrap it in a tarp - by the time you get to where you are going, there will be no paint left. Tarps tend to flap in the wind


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 06:00 pm:

I'm not worried about the paint. It's not a show car. lol


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 06:15 pm:

I followed a T tied down with axle straps for 5 hrs going to a rally and commented to the owner on how much the T bounced and then finding when I unloaded my own, strapped on the axle, it had been bouncing that hard that it had broken the tail pipe out of the muffler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 07:00 pm:

Jimmt, Just a note on your chain binders. North Carolina has outlawed them. That was a surprise to me but you can use the ratchet/screw type.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 07:12 pm:

Soft tires build heat then they go BANG!!!!! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 08:58 pm:

Ralph, Did we damage anything when we hooked to the axles? I always hook to the 4 corners, on the axle, and then one from the center of the front axle back and one from the rear axle forward. Been doing it that way for years, from coast to coast and everywhere else 'n I keep them tight. The frame is always the same length when I get there as it was when I left.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 10:03 pm:

No damage, Hal, and thanks again for hauling the car to Atlanta for the 1999 Greatrace, and following us back.

How was your drive today?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Sunday, July 13, 2014 - 11:56 pm:

LA to SD was wall to wall traffic but it kept moving. I-5 through the LA area was the worst freeway that I have been on. Rough pavement and construction all over the place and there was more traffic than this country boy cares for. On our homeward trip we plan on the 15 North to someplace and then over to 5.

U doing OK. Lutheran prayers are rendered heavenward for you to have peace and comfort. Regards to Ronna. (Did I spell her name right??)

Ed Archer drove his Speedster Down and made it in good shape. He took 3 days getting here. It took Gene Crruthers (sp) a bunch of hours to get here because of traffic. 41 cars showed up for the tour. Cheers, Hal


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 12:35 am:

R. S. Cruickshank,
I'd have to see the NC ban on chain binders in official writing to believe it. I looked in the NC CDL manual and there is no mention of a ban. They are an industry standard and federal DOT approved.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 03:59 am:

Speaking of the DOT let's look at the pictures.What would the DOT say about the single chain running through the schakle on the front?Would the DOT want two chains or a seperate chain to each corner to stop a slide? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 07:48 am:

My opinion: It is best to tie the tire or axle down firm to the trailer and let the suspension system float as need be. That is pretty much how the car reacts when being driven. If money were no object and I had the time and energy to do so, I would install two hold down points on my trailer at each corner of the car and use four of the 'nets' that go over the tire. However, I haul more than just a single Model T on the same trailer and those locations would not be the same for everything. Rail system? Maybe, but I still don't know that that would be OK for everything. I would want the rail system tied to the trailer frame, not just the wood deck and that would take more money and time and energy than I care to dedicate. So.......what do I do? I use two heavy ratchet straps, one on the front, one on the rear. In the front, I tie off to the front of the trailer, go over the end of the T axle, under the wishbone, back up over the other end of the axle and back to the front of the trailer. In the rear, I tie off to the rear of the trailer, go over the T axle, under the torque tube, back up over the other side of the axle and back to the rear of the trailer again. Yes, this pulls somewhat on the wishbone cap, but there's no need to tighten it any tighter than it takes to keep it from moving, You don't need to play tug of war. Also, I believe a lot of the "Pulling the wishbone ball out of it's socket" hysteria is hype. Could it be done? Sure, if you tried hard enough, but then again, you could bend the cross members in the frame if you pulled hard enough. Just use some common sense when you tighten it. Braking forces are NOT pulling on the wishbone. The only additional forces other than strap tension on the wishbone ball is acceleration in forward or braking in reverse. How hard do you accelerate forward or brake in reverse when towing a trailer? I have always tied Model T's and Model A's down this way. Never have I done any damage.

Now, for what I DON'T like about tying off to the frame.......Unless you compress the springs down MIGHTY tight, when you hit a bump, you get slack in your strap. Is it enough to allow it to come unhooked? I don't want to find out. I also don't much care for the idea of fully compressing the springs for long periods of time, nor do I care for the shock load of the suspension further compressing during a bump and then springing back up to a sudden stop when the slack runs out on the straps (Reminds me of a joke about a bear trap:-))

Suffice it to say I prefer to let the suspension on the car do what it was intended to do; let the frame and body move around independent of the wheels and axles. One might argue that the trailer has a suspension system, and they would be right. However, my trailer is made to carry something like 5800 lbs (7000 - 1200 or so trailer weight). A Model T weighs only a fraction of that. That's too stiff to rigidly tie the frame to.......in my opinion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 08:25 am:

Make sure the hood is on very securely. The last owner of my T didn't do that and as a result I'm looking for a replacement hood AND windshield.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 08:26 am:

Right or wrong i use two heavy rachect straps to 4 D-rings in the floor that are bolted to the frame.I have 4 strap loop's that go around each axle outside of the spring perches.I circle the each axle twice to help avoid side slip,and also chock the wheels.Bud?? PS When i stop to eat or go i ALWAYS CHECK MY RIGG!!!!!Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Kelly on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 08:59 am:

I have trailered many different cars including early brass ones many miles over a period of 30 plus years and have reached the same conclusions as Hal.

Tieing cars down by the frame, especially early cars, will likely result in more problems than solutions.

Timothy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 09:39 am:

I have tried tying to the frame and find the bounce is very bad. It goes down and then the up bounce it pulls against the strap and causes the trailer to bounce causing my pickup to bounce causing the tires to cup.

My current method takes a little longer, but the T rides on its own springs and the trailer rides very smoothly. I use 8 straps. I use 6 D rings with at least one bolt through the steel of the trailer. One strap forward and one strap back from each axle to the D ring. The front D rings are at the front corners of the trailer and the center D rings are just far enough to be able to get the strap all the way from the rear axle to the D ring without pulling against the wheel. The straps are placed on the axle right next to the spring perch on toward the center of the axle with the pull toward the same corner of the trailer and the center D ring on the same side. This method tends to equalize the pull on the axles forward and backward. so that the spring takes a good amount of the pull rather than the wishbone. The rear straps are placed next to the rear perch with the pull toward the same side of the trailer I use a strap forward to the center D ring and one back toward the rear D ring. If I have something heavy I set it on the floorboard so that the floorboard won't pop out of place. Note all my cars have a center Ruckstell shifter so I don't worry about the heavy item bouncing over the starter switch. I set it on the passenger side of the shifter.

Also I fold the top down with a boot on it and the windshield down. On the 26 I put the top part of the windshield against the steering wheel so that the wind won't blow it in against the steering wheel. ( I have seen one car where that happened and broke both the steering wheel and the glass.)

On shorter trips I just use the straps to the 4 corners of the trailer without the center straps.

I'm not saying that my way of strapping the car is the only way to do it, but it is the best method I have found for both the Model T and the trailer to ride smoothly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 09:46 am:

Let's have pictures of various tie down methods, please.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cary Abate on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 11:29 am:

My favs over the years. Wheel tiedowns.Tiedowns


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Deckman, Ogden Utah on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 01:59 pm:

If it is a touring like you say then do not go much over 50 or the wind shield will end up in the front seat. The car not designed for high speed!!

my 2 cents.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 04:53 pm:

I've read this entire thread William and looked at the picture in your profile.And I've read where you said the top will be down. 'Bout the only thing unsaid so far that I'd like to include is loosen your top windshield and turn it horizontal - then tighten it up again. You'll enjoy a little less wind resistance.

And if you're open trailering a pre'15 Ford. . . . take the rubber horn bulb off before driving off. It doesn't like speeds over 45 MPH and will leave you. Don't ask me how I know :o)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 07:07 pm:

I use wheel tie downs. The way I see it if a T can withstand the severe shocks of driving on frozen muddy deep rutted roads, rock strewn dry river beds, rail road ties, etc, etc, without damage then it's design should allow it, provided it is in good mechanical shape, to withstand a ride on a spring suspension trailer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 07:14 pm:

I use wheel tie downs. The way I see it if a T can withstand the severe shocks of driving on frozen muddy deep rutted roads, rock strewn dry river beds, rail road ties, etc, etc, without damage then it's design should allow it, provided it is in good mechanical shape, to withstand a ride on a spring suspension trailer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Monday, July 14, 2014 - 07:16 pm:

Sorry about the DP. Was distracted and screen said to post so I did.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 07:32 am:

Not a problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 07:39 am:

Not a problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 09:20 am:

What double post?

What double post?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 09:25 am:

What double post?

What double post?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 08:36 pm:

Any good examples of wheel tie downs and where you can purchase ones that fit to a T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Thursday, July 17, 2014 - 01:31 am:

Jim Thode,

http://www.fws.gov/policy/243fw5.html

Section 5.8,2,I


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cary Abate on Thursday, July 17, 2014 - 12:50 pm:

Here is what I use.


Cary


UScargocontrol.com


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, July 17, 2014 - 01:07 pm:


Straps outside the perches work for me.


I you want to use wheel nets or straps, be sure they fit the wheels. These U-Haul wheel straps were useless.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, July 17, 2014 - 08:38 pm:

Cary,Thank you for the site and i have it in my favorites!! Sling angle! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Thursday, July 17, 2014 - 10:22 pm:

I just want to make sure it's secure and doesn't leap off the trailer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Thursday, July 17, 2014 - 11:00 pm:

Doug Money,

This US Fish and Wildlife policy applies to USFW employes. It does not apply to others.
http://www.fws.gov/policy/243fw5.html
Section 5.8,2,I

I saw this earlier and it looks like with the help the internet rumor mill, some folks think it applies to others.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Sunday, July 20, 2014 - 09:53 pm:

All right. Please, if possible show me various tie down suggestions. Probably gonna do this in October. I'm gonna trailer it to the hotel and then drive it to my dad's house, but not tell him I'm coming.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Monday, July 21, 2014 - 01:26 am:

William,
If you want photos of Model T's tied to a trailer, click on this link to find hundreds:
https://www.google.com/search?q=trailer+tie+downs+site:http://www.mtfca.com/disc us/messages/&lr=&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=TqPMU8TpO9C6oQTw5ICwBA&ved=0 CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1184&bih=554

In the end there are many options that will do the job.

Jim


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