OT - No Title, No Deal!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: OT - No Title, No Deal!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Perigo - Linton, IN on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 08:44 am:

This is not directly related to T's, but it could be. I bought a 1939 Chrysler in eBay. New York State did not issue titles prior to 1973, so I received a Bill of Sale. Usually this is no problem in Indiana. When I checked with the BMV before buying the car, I was told Bill of Sale, police check, no problem. Now I find out that because the car purchase price was over 5,000.00 I have to have a court order for the BMV to issue a title.

From now on, no matter how attractive the deal, I will not buy a car without a clear title. Let the seller pay to get one.

I have a T that I bought with a Bill of Sale several years ago and had no issues with the BMV. I sure wish they had told me about the 5000.00 thing when I asked about the procedure this time.

Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wes Nelson ........Bucyrus, MO on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 09:32 am:

I suggest going somewhere else and tell them you paid $500 for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 11:01 am:

Live & learn Mike. I won't buy an un-titled car mostly because of what I've read here on the Forum over the years. I've walked on 2 T's because of no title deals. Actually the seller can't prove they own the vehicle these days with just a bill of sale so it's always on the buyer to prove they now own it. Legally.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Perigo - Linton, IN on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 11:21 am:

If you don't go thru the court ordered process, they can charge you high retail based on a value set by NADA or some other agency!

I gave 7700.00 for decent running car, but the high retail is over 16,000.00.

Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 12:00 pm:

Title is preferred, but I have never had an issue with no title either. Simply reapply for a new title, have the Highway Patrol confirm the Vin, and pay your money. If you found a 1909 Touring in a barn, would the deal be off because of no title? Granted, if you go into the DMV unprepared and thinking the government will do things correctly with no issues, not much of a chance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 12:41 pm:

Good point Ed but the uniqueness of a find like that would make it easy as hell to sell on for a nice profit without doing anything. Especially if the buy-it price is low. Forgotten Touring in a barn
? Uninterested family? That's BINGO in any language! There's exceptions to every rule and I'd break my no title/ no sale rule in this case mostly because I know I'd be able to sell it on if the paperwork got really nuts..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Perigo - Linton, IN on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 12:44 pm:

A 1909 touring might be intriguing, but here, unless the seller put less than 5000.00 on the Bill of State, you could be paying out the nose in taxes. What would a mint condition 1909 touring be worth on a market set by a government agency?

Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 12:50 pm:

I agree with Wes. Either move the decimal point and white out the last zero, or go to the seller and ask for a "revised" bill of sale.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 12:56 pm:

Good point. On my second T the seller refused to put a lower price on the title and I paid, as stated above, through the nose. Couldn't be helped. Who knows. Maybe the guy got screwed on some other state related matter and wouldn't take any chances. Particularly with someone he wasn't going to see again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 01:03 pm:

Some compliant sellers will give a bill of sale and leave the amount blank, leaving it to the buyer to fill in whatever amount he wants on the bill of sale and the title. That way, the seller can be made to feel he is doing nothing wrong. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 01:14 pm:

If anyone refuses to buy a car without a title, that person won't be buying anything in NY that is older than '73. The state will not issue a title. Not no way, not no how. You might go through one of those titling agencies, or get it titled yourself in an "easy title" state for transfer later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Perigo - Linton, IN on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 05:16 pm:

I checked with Broadway Title - $895.00. Even though I had to pay $141.00 in court costs, the total is still less than Broadway Title at 7% of $7700.00.

I actually thought about driving the car with 1939 Indiana plates which I have and thumbing my nose at the Indiana BMV. I doubt than a State Trooper would just stop me and ask to see my OEM Plate registration. My luck would be me running a red light or having a tail light out!

I just felt that it was one more way to put it to people who actually play by the rules. It is beyond me why if I have a legitimate Bill of State with a reasonable value on the vehicle, the BMV would do this except to squeeze a little bit more out of folks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 05:52 pm:

The following has not been authenticated, but it's the word on the street. Not my documents, just taken from the web.

"A couple of years ago Broadway Title was under investigation and prosecution in several states for issuing improper titles. They were issuing antique vehicle titles to fiberglass kit cars that just looked like antiques. This enabled the kit car owners to avoid the safety & emissions requirements of modern cars."

"they're an alabama legal/titleless, bill of sale state since '73, but 'questionable' group."

"WHEREFORE, for the reasons set forth above and effective this 7th day of January, 2010, it
is HEREBY ORDERED:
(1) Broadway Title and Settlements, LLC’s Resident Producer Firm license #99978102 is
REVOKED.
(2) Oluremi Adeola’s Resident Producer Individual license #99978103 is REVOKED.


RALPH S. TYLER
INSURANCE COMMISSIONER

Signature on file with original
By: ___________________________________
NANCY GRODIN
Associate Commissioner
Compliance & Enforcement "


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 06:24 pm:

Mike, using plates that are not registered in Idaho will get you a ticket for fictitious display, which is far worse than no license.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 07:35 pm:

From my own harrowing experience- as a state, Illinois no longer allows vehicles to be sold without a title, otherwise it is considered a crime. They are also hip to using Maine or Alabama as non-title states, so don't bother. So on all cars, no title= no deal. Just FYI.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 - 07:53 pm:

That bit about Broadway is true, at least in NC. Someone in the DMV railroaded a registration thru for a Cobra Kit car, and it was titled as an ORIGINAL car.


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