I am rewiring my 1926 hopefully get it running next week. I pulled the ignition switch and want to order 3 extra keys. Wow there is no number I can see on this key ! I am betting some expert can ID it from the cut and position from the grove please
Get up close and personal with the front of the switch. Originals usually have the key number stamped on the front.
Will be hard to tell just by looking at your key! There are only 4 cut profiles for all combinations, the differences are the slot location
Just look on the tumbler, it's right on the face.
Mark to get to the tumbler on a 1926, do I pry up on the black switch plate tabs on the ignition housing (4 of them) and pull it away from the face plate to get to the tumbler / Thanks
No need to take anything apart. It's right on the face of the switch.
By the way, once you find out what the number is, I'd stamp it on the key.
No, David. He's talking about the grayish pot metal the key slot is in; the part in the middle of the lever part. If it isn't worn off, you should be able to see a number stamped on the face next to where the key slot is. If worn, you may need a magnifying glass or a loupe. If worn smooth, all bets are off. If I had my original key board at my house with me, I could look at each key and tell you which number it is, but Unfortunately, I don't.
By any chance is this key #55 which is supplied with the replacement lock cylinder which is sometimes supplied without a key number? Here's a photo from Don Lang's catalog.
Looking at my photo again, it appears the key is opposite. If there is no number on the cylinder, you could order #55 and flip the four tunblers to re-key.
I figured it was a replacement #55 like Mac's sells because the cut is exactly like a 55 but, the groove is on the other side so not a 55.
I just bought a new switch from Langs. It arrived this afternoon with two keys, they sure do appear to be number 55 which it the key in the car now....however the original key does not fit all the way into the new key slot !
I got out my key board and I am leaning toward #69. Everything matches as well as I can tell. It is hard to say 100 percent from a photo, but that is my vote. My #55 looks like the keys in the above photo with the tumbler, so it is not a #55 All my keys are original keys ... Maybe someone else has a # 69 to double check my thoughts ....
Here is an original Ford key on the left and a new replacement one on the right. Notice how the new key has a bigger head with rounded sides? David, that new one looks a lot like yours. There is still the issue of the slot on the wrong side though. Were some key numbers like that?
I laid out all my keys with the slots all up, and pointed up like David's photo. The only one that seemed to match was the #69. There were some similar and some not even close. If you look at Dave's photo above, the 2 keys look similar. But when you look closely at the key on the right. notice what looks like a little mountain with a flat bottomed valley beside it. Now look at the other key. It has the little mountain but the valley is not flat bottomed. From looking closely at all my keys I still vote #69
# 53. KGB
David and Dave: I believe the key on the right in Dave's photo above is a #55. Just out of curiosity, I put my #55 and #69 back to back. They are identical in all the hills and valleys. The only difference being the grooves being on opposite sides. I would post pictures but my new computer is driving me crazy trying to learn all the new crap they decided I needed. So Im re-learning how to post pics ....
Actually Donnie, I should have mentioned in my photo, the key on the right is a 55 and the key on the left is a 54. When you flip them over, the the 55 has the groove down the center and the 54 is offset a bit. Obviously you have discovered other differences.
After Keith posted #53 I got the 53 and 69 out and laid them back to back. They are so close its hard to imagine one not working in the other one. The only difference I could make out by looking very very closely is the bottom of the valley opposite the little mountain is very slightly longer on the #69 than the #53. By looking closely again at Davids photo I still vote #69. I can not imagine why Ford made the 53 and 69 keys so close to each other. That might be why the master key set only has 4 keys .....
I was just "surfing", you guys are good (and helpful).
I can identify David's key as definitely not #55, #61, #65, or #72. Those are keys I have and they don't match.
Why not just get a set of dealer keys for now or take a road trip to a dealer to check their key boards. If you are in Indiana, maybe Jack has a full set of keys you could try out.
My apologies to all. The original pictures of the key I posted were INVERTED so I confused and wasted your time. I have eliminated that software program. If you can, here are ACCURATE pictures of the key if you can take another look please I checked the image before posting and this is accurate
I was thinking the images were flipped but, being that these are digital images rather than from negatives, I dismissed it. That settles it then, it is a #55 modern replacement key. Makes sense, I've heard that all the new keys are #55 anyway.
David THANK YOU and everyone for the great help !
For everyone's info I WAS using a program called fast stone photo resizer to shrink pictures for this forum. It inverted pictures ! IT IS GONE
There were no markings on the ignition tumbler. So this was a great help
I agree with Dave. Since the image was reversed it now appears to be a Modern #55. As Dave also stated the Modern replacement switches are all #55. There may be some earlier replacements that are a different number.. But we did learn that a #53 and #69 appear to be almost identical. And also that a #55 and #69 are the same shape other than the slot being on opposite sides. We did learn something ,so not a waste of time. So as it stands now I change my vote to a #55
Find someone that has a full set of keys, or a master set, and you will be able to determine what number it is. It looks like a factory reject to me.
Here are David's key and my repo #55 side by side.
They're pretty close to a match, but you can see some slight differences. I wonder if they're really both #55. I'd like to try both of them in a #55 switch and see if they both work.
That isn't even close.
I have a full set in front of me and a #56 is the closest to David's key
Thanks I will order bot a number 55 and a number 56 Monday !
Matching up with my master set and a full set of originals it appears to be a #74
This is barely more than the price of two keys and you'll know for sure what you have:
Unless the original tumbler is bad, I would not order a new tumbler. Not long ago I bought a new one and it was very poor quality. Shoddy workmanship but with some work I got it to work. Unusable as it came.
A question for anyone with master sets. Does anyone's set have grooves in the keys. My master key set is a lot thinner than a regular key and they do not have grooves. Other than the placement of the slot Steves #55 looks the same just very worn ... The #55 and the #74 mentioned above almost match each other as to the hills and valleys. I think the thing we are missing is the placement of the groove. That might be why my master key set is thin with no grooves.??? I want to change my vote to "with reservations" Even taking my #55 and # 74 and laying them on top of each other it is hard to find a difference. The placement of the groove is the hard thing to tell. but I will add that my #56 is different than Davids key. The bottom of the valley is different. If I was buying 2 keys I woudl lean toward a #55 and a #74
Looks like the groove is either to the left or to the right of the point on the tip of the key. Or above/below, whatever the proper reference is.
On a side note, what about pulling the switch apart and removing the tumblers? Then any key ought to work, no?
Hmm, Steve's pictures show that it is definitely not a 55, the groove is in the wrong place. Yes Donnie, the master set is thin enough to bypass the groove, placement of the groove determines actual number of the key within that key "cut" (the ups and downs of the sides of the key).
Tim, NO, the tumbler groove pin is placed to fit whatever number key the lock is for, so taking out the wafers only gives you about 4 keys that will go in that lock.
Of course, in many, maybe most, original cylinders (tumbler) the groove pin is worn down, or even gone, so most any key will go in, but might not turn the cylinder.
I feel a little like Will V. in the other thread he commented on
I tried to tell ya guys up top that 51, 52, 53,54, 55, 56 ALL have the same cut profile (shape) and the groove has 6 different locations!
That then means also that 57, 58, 59, 60,61, 62 also ALL have a shared cut common profile, and again 6 different groove possibilities.
If you catch on quick then you will also understand that 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68 all have the same cut profile that differs from the previous 12, and again 6 different groove possibilities.
Now that you graduated, want to place a bet? 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74 are? Wow, another common profile share...with those pesky 6 different grooves
It is that simple guys...
and if you have a Ford switch (that switch company or companies also sold that style switch to others) then as shown in others pics...the actual key number is stamped in the front along side the keyslot.
Here is the other side of my repro #55. Make no mistake about it. It's a 55.
I have 7 orginal # 56 that look just like that.
Dave W. your repro #55 is different than Steve J.'s #55 repro pictured above.
I don't have my full set handy, it's out in the shop, or I would make a comparison
Yes Ken but, we are comparing to David's key are we not?
George's post really explains it, and the 4 keys I mentioned would be the ones with the same groove location. And I don't understand why we are using a repro key to determine what key Dave has--repro parts are infamous for not being right!
Boy, we're sure getting 'keyed up' over this subject!
These are right side up photos of the keys that come with re-pop switches.
The will not fit an original Ford tumbler as the notches are opposite of the original Ford keys.
By the way....that ^ photo is both sides of two re-pop keys.
Those keys look exactly like mine above which do work in an original Ford lock BTW.
They won't work in mine......neither the '19 OR the '27.
I tried them a while ago just for the heck of it and I tried them again just before I posted.
David, you will notice the slot is off center too far in those repro keys. They will work fine in a repro lock and the cut is the same as a #55.
You can order new keys by number from Langs and other vendors. They may still need to be flattened and thinned slightly to work in your lock.
Then too, that cylinder the key slides into is pot metal and often broken.
If your switch has 3 pins on it, Briggs and Stratton likely made it or it might be a repro.
If it is a repro, you can buy a repro cylinder with 2 keys from MACs for about $8, but it will only fit a repro switch properly, without some machining of the part that it turns.
The repro cylinder may have been the proper size before it was chrome plated, but it is slightly too large now.
Good morning from Knoxville, Tennessee.
I believe there are/were two suppliers of the replacement lock cylinder. My experience with the chrome plated version is that it is too large in diameter and the bottom portion does not fit up to the switch parts.
As shown the photo I posted earlier in this thread and from personal experience, the cylinder Lang's offers is not plated and is more correct in diameter and its bottom end fits the switch parts better.