There was a set of these special demountable on the Boone tour. Rather neat, with the dome hub nuts that remove and allow the whole wheel to come off. The center hub, as shown in the spare on the car in the old photo is held with bolts to the wood spokes.
The owner has plated the dome nuts and outer hub plate brass and these look neat to me!
Only 6 of the dome nuts are removed to release the wheel, the others are decorative and actually hold the hub center.
I'm not sure why anyone would want that but hey, it's his car.
Here is the period adv on these wheels.
Great photo! Nice 1916 (?) touring (tourer?). Right hand drive, post-mount headlamps. British? Canadian? Any ideas where this was taken? Accessory wheels like those were available in the USA, however were much more common in Britain, Europe, and Australia. I have always liked those wheels.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I always thought that's the way all British T Fords were. No?
Rambler Automobiles from approx. 1908 thru 1912 had the same demountable style wheel as standard equipment. The had a spare wheel with tire mounted in a carrier on the running board.
Yes, those wheels are typical on British T's of the brass era.
The ones in Dan's ad are a different type.
The photos that Dan Treace posted must be Frank Kelly's 1912 touring that your dad brought down from Minneapolis to Texas approx. 20 years ago.
Exterior hub plate and extra acorn nuts aside, we always wondered if those demountable hubs were actually fabricated by Frank instead of being an aftermarket accessory.
Also - I had some demountable at the hub wheels that I sold a few years ago:
I believe the what I posted above matches what is in the ad that Dan posted.
Ford USA, CA, and Britain supplied the cars with non-demountable wheels for all the brass radiator Model T Fords. And the standard four lug demountable rims were introduced later at slightly different times and ways. For example in the USA they were standard on the closed cars starting in 1919 and optional on the open cars a little later ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1919.htm But in "The English Model T Ford" book they point out on page 229 they were offered late in 1919 on the Ton Truck only and then across all Fords in 1920. Prior to that time, people purchased accessory demountable rims, wheels, or a Stepney spare rim with a tire. (See: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/139969.html?1273275184 for more information on the Stepney . ) So from the Ford factory none of the brass radiator Ts would have had a demountable wheel. A lot of the photos of English cars do show a demountable wheel and of those there are variations. A three bolt wheel also shows up in several of the photos that I have seen.
Note in the photo above if we could tell for sure if the car had a right front "dummy" door, we would know for sure it was an English production T. Both the USA and Canadian cars had a door hinge on the right hand side starting in 1912. But the English Fords did not obtain an opening right hand front door until approximately Oct 1918 (ref page 229 "The English Model T Ford" book.)
For an excellent book on the English cars I would highly recommend "The English Model T Ford" book see a summary at: http://www.modeltbook.co.uk/chapter-by-chapter.html and available from in the USA from Lang's at: http://www.modeltford.com/pl.aspx?t=s&v=EnglishT&page=1 and possibly some other vendors.
Hap l9l5 cut off
With the exception of the bolts being installed backwards on your picture of the front hub, I can't see any difference from that hub and any other front hub.
When I purchased the "Frank Kelly" 1912 touring three years ago, I removed the accessory wheels and gave them to Ross Lilliker. Looks like Ross may have found a new home for the wheels. My profile picture shows what the car looks like today. It has the fore doors, but I do not run with them.
The company that originally produced the hubs that I posted used stock hubs and plates as a starting point. However, it's not just a matter of simply reversing the hub bolts. Note that there is a ring with the studs riveted to the hub. The studs are attached to the hub via this ring and cannot be removed from the hub. Also, the outside plate is pinned to the to the wheel. This allows the wheel to be slipped on and off the hub while the studs remain firmly in place, much like a modern car.
I only had two front wheels. I did not have the corresponding rear wheels and hubs.
Here are photos that I took of another variation of this type of accessory - these wheels are on a '17 Ford.
Pages 496 and 497 in "The Model T Ford Owner" talks about how to make and install dis-mountable wheels.
These are on my 1914 tour Ross is my brother in law half the nuts hold the wheel together the other 6 hold it to the hub.
I always think of the 1912 as being Dwight Madsen's, because my dad bought it from Dwight around 1983 when Dwight was being treated for his terminal illness. I know Frank was responsible for the circus car restoration. The wheels on that car had hubs that were home made by Frank I think.
Here is a British 1913 - ish wheel for comparison:
Also the brass parts are brass not brass plated but I am trying to figure out what I can do to keep them nice looking I don't want to be taking them a part all the time to re polish
Those other black painted demountable wood spoke wheels with the black touring you posted are "Minute Wheels" Made by Hill-Smith.
These are i.d. by the hex shape on the hubs.
I was a good friend of both Frank Kelly and Dwight Madsen. I remember the Kelly/Madsen/Peterson 1912 Touring. As I remember it was painted an off yellow. The chassis was an usual color also. Perhaps some of it was plated? I knew it was for sale. One day I was driving north on highway interstate 35 when going south was a vehicle pulling a trailer. On that trailer was that 1912. Dwight owned a wonderful 1915 Town Car that was very original. In those days one restored nice original Ts. That T is still in the Twin Cities of Minnesota. Senior Madsen was a car collector Also and owned a very low mileage Ford Thunderbird. The headlights on my 1910 were restored by Frank and my set of ALAM and NACC annual catalog books came from Frank.
When I purchased the 1912 from Ward Beebe in Austin, she still had a lot of pinstriping on the chassis. As I recall, it was a reddish color with yellow pinstripes. I commented to my wife that the old girl must have been a neat car when it was originally restored. Thanks for the tidbits on her history. We did not know her lineage until the last month. If anyone comes across a photo of her when she was originally restored, please let me know.
Bill Praus purchased the '12 from Frank Kelly's widow in the late 1960s. He lived close to where I grew up so I saw the car on a regular basis. Bill passed away in November 1991.
Dwight bought the car in from Bill's wife in 1994 but owned it for only a few months. (Right after I purchased my '17 roadster I stored it in Dwight's garage during the winter of 1993-94 and which got him excited about Model Ts again so he bought the '12.) Unfortunately, shortly after purchasing the car he was diagnosed with lung cancer so he decided to sell it (he passed away in July 1995).
Either my parents or I have photos of the Dwight with the car shortly after he purchased it. I'll have to find them.
After the car left Minneapolis, my dad had sent to your dad some color 35mm slides of the car taken in the 1950s or 60s as well as some professional glossy photos of Frank sitting in the car taken where he worked at General Mills in downtown Minneapolis.
I didn't see Mike's post above.
The car was yellow with black fenders. However, the undersides of the fenders were painted red and, and it had red running gear. The wheels were varnished but the rims were painted red. Dwight told me that the main reason Frank painted the body yellow was because the car was not a very good specimen when he bought it and yellow would hide the defects in the sheet metal better than a dark color.
The car had a canvas top and it's original leather upholstery. The interior of the doors were lined with woodgrain formica. The tops of the doors had decorative wood strips fastened with oval head screws.
Frank was a very talented fellow. He polished the block of the motor so it was nice and smooth. He fabricated a brass coil box for the car which looked like it could have been issued by Ford Motor Company. He also fabricated a miniature Model T brass radiator with with a car clock in the middle and installed it on the dashboard (this was removed from the car before it left Minneapolis). He most likely machined all the heads of the acorn nuts that you see on the demountable hubs.
If I have time, I'll see if I can locate photos of the car.
Below is a related car, a 1913 Ford owned by Jerry Glubke who was a friend of and lived near Frank Kelly in south Minneapolis. This car was restored much in the same manner as the 1912 - Frank most likely had a hand in it. Jeff Perkins eventually owned this car but he sold it and it no longer resides in Minnesota:
Thanks again Erik. The car had obviously been through some changes by the time I got it. The wood caps on the doors are still there. In addition, we found a beautiful large handmade brass Ford script mounted to the front floor mat. Time had completely tarnished it all but black, but a lot of elbow grease brought it back to life. I still have a bunch of those large brass acorn nuts in a box!
Ross Lilliker did an excellent re-restoration on the car. The body panels and wood were in great shape, which made the job relatively straightforward.
Again, thanks for sharing your memories of the car.
Hey Mike Hanson are you saying you have a box of the brass lug nuts for the wheels that came of the 1912??
I also have one wheel and two front hubs like the first ones you all are showing for sale