I have a '19 Touring that I have been thinking of changing the hogs head from a non-starter to a starter hogs head.
This may sound stupid, but in some one's mind it better to pull the engine and change it or attempt to do the job in the car? I know some will say you are stupid Bill but I had to ask.
Please give me a break on my question. The original hogs head was installed a long time ago and now at my age I want it changed
Hopefully I will get a bunch of good replies
Thanks a bunch in advance, and if I do not get any replies I will know I should have kept my mouth shut
You do know that just changing the hogshead won't give you starter capabilities. You will still need a flywheel with a starter ring gear on it. So the entire engine would have to come out.
that is unless, all 1919 cars came with ring gears, which I don't think they did. I could be mistaken, and if so, a new piece of info will be learned.
I found my own answer.
FEB 21 1919 Acc. 575, Box 11, #724, Ford Archives T-701C starter-type flywheel used on all cars.
I suppose that if Ford used a starter type flywheel then the whole assembly would be starter ready, but isn'y the mag ring also different for starter engines vs. non-starter?
I looked again, and the information suggests that the coil ring is starter friendly, too.
Learn something new everyday.
The flywheel and mag ring both are different for starter vs. pre-starter cars. Dealing with a car from a time of transition such as 1919, I'd think you'd need to look inside to determine which pieces will need to be changed.
If you need to change any of those internal parts, of course you'll need to pull the engine. But even if all you need to do is change the hogshead and add the starter, I'd still prefer to pull the engine to do the work. Those iron hogsheads are very heavy, and it's difficult enough to get one positioned right and sealed up while out of the car, much less inside it. Installing the starter and bendix is much easier outside the car as well.
I think that what the Encyclopedia information is saying, after I went and read it, is that all Model T engines were starter friendly, whether they had a starter on them or not starting in February of 1919, so I guess prior to February you'd have to check and see if the ring gear was actually in there.
I presume, like I said after having read it, that it would be more practical in having all 1919 and later engines exactly the same, but hogsheads would be different. Then you'd only have to change one item instead of three.
Thanks for all the input, however my engine does have the starter ring gear. So for the interest of making it simple it would be best to put the engine and do the hogs head and that way I would get a good seal job and "MAYBE" prevent leaks.
Thanks again. Again Thank for all the posts.
I think Mike W.'s comment is right on. When you have a "transition" period engine (or car for that matter) you need to be careful. In my experience it seems Ford would use up what was on the shelf before introducing a new item. Just because a certain date is given as the date of a change, that does not necessarily mean every engine on or after that date has the change.
If you pull the engine to swap the trans cover that will give you the opportunity to check out and look for "budding" problems before they come to full bloom and will give you a better chance of having a leak free seal when installing the cover. Also, your spine will thank you for not swapping covers in the car.
Good luck with your project. Bill
Bill, I figured all the '19 engines after January had the ring gear and the starter hogshead but with block off plates in non starter cars. You say you have the ring gear but not the starter hogshead. Sounds very transitional, possibly a branch plant car. Is it possible you could post your engine number or at least most of it? Casting date too? It would be interesting to know when your engine was made.
I can't see a good reason to remove the engine to replace the Hogshead. I've always removed the hogshead to replace the bands in my Fords and it's not that difficult. I must say, though, since I changed from biological to hydrocarbon based band material I haven't had to do that for a while.
I'd bet that your car is starter ready... and the non starter HH was either a later addition, or an assy. plant inventory reduction ploy.
Over all this sounds like a smart upgrade to me. One I've consider for my '16 since hand surgery, but decided not to since that would ruin its originality. (the car not the hand)
Bill D., you say your car has a starter ring gear, does it also have the starter mag ring? The one w/the notch in it.