My 1915 (non-starter car) starts easily when cold and it starts easily when warmed up, shut off and then started within a minute or two of being shut off.
Runs great and sounds good when running.
If it sets for more than that, the car will not start. Won't even try. Sounds as if it is not getting any gas. I've tried starting her on the mag and battery.
Eventually it will start again but after much cranking and or the engine has cooled off.
Compression is a little low ranging from 25 to 35 pounds across the cylinders.
John: When in that 'warm but been a while' mode, you might try opening the carb up a quarter turn or so. Doing just that really helped my 15 runabout start under similar conditions. Then after it runs for a minute to two, turn the carb back down so it runs the best.
I suspect that your choke is not being used since you might feel that the engine can be flooded if you choke it when warm and in fact it easily can be flooded then . My car behaves the same and the grey range is when the engine has sat long enough to loose its "prime" and yet not long enough to seem to need to be choked but remember that it is an updraft carb and even when warm it might need a shot of gas via the choke. What I actually do may sound strange but it works. When you get this exact same condition of warm but no prime - do NOT just choke the thing with ignition off since it is easy to flood it. Instead - pull on the choke wire with ignition on battery and hold the choke while you yank on the crank but let go of the choke wire completely just before you get the crank handle all the way up to top of its travel. What I am saying is that you need to start the hand crank revolution and then drop the choke WHILE you are spinning the motor. My brass cars including my son's 16 roadster will all roar to life on that very revolution of the hand crank but it fires AFTER I drop the choke and never before that so as crazy as it sounds - try it.
When you park the car, leave the hood open so the heat escapes from the engine compartment. This may keep the fuel lines from becoming heat-soaked and vapor-locking the gasoline therein.
A more permanent solution might include re-routing the fuel line outboard of the car's frame so it won't be near the hot exhaust pipe.
John, I had this problem with my 22. Rerouting the gas line outside the frame as Bob described fixed most of it for me. Realizing it often needs to be choked a bit in those situations as JohnR explained cleared up the rest. No more struggling with warm starts now. Hope it works out for you too.
Depends on the carburetor. I have a NH which requires just a little choke when starting warm like at the gas station after filling the gas tank. On another T I have a L4 and it starts right up without a choke. Since your car won't start anyway, you can try one pull up on the crank with the choke and see what happens. No problem if it doesn't start you wait for a while and it will start just like it does now. But if the choking works, you have solved the problem.
Thanks folks. It has an NH on it and I have always feared choking it but lets give it a shot!
For easy starting on a stem-winder car, I prefer a Holly G.
When that happens to me, it is usually the opposite problem. Neither of mine usually need choking when warm, but sometimes you don't know whether to call it warm or not. Like when you come out of a restaurant and it's been sitting for an hour. I'll try to start it and it won't start, so I choke it.......only to find I aggravated the problem. Usually a couple of pulls with wide open throttle will start mine if flooded, but it's good to have someone around to close the throttle quickly.
They are all different. I cringe when I read the choking procedure that some use. Mine would be so dang flooded you'd need a bucket to catch the gas pouring from the carb, but it obviously works on their car. Like I say, they are all different.
Then add arthritis in both shoulders and your left hand to the equation and see how hard it is to start under ANY condition. I sense a "non-correct" electric starter in my '12's future!
The thought of electrifying my 1915 has crossed my mind to Tim.
I'm 60 with a bad back.
I thought that's what ya'll had wives for? You get in and get fixed and have everything adjusted so it's ready to start and then holler "Wind her up babe!!" and then your wife cranks the car and off you go. =) LOL Then she either gets in with you or goes back in the kitchen (where she should have been before you called her out to wind it up).
Teach them early
LOL that annoyed look on her face is GREAT.
Went out yesterday and the car was even hard starting when cold. That was a new development. I'll check again today to see if it repeats itself. Tank is full of fresh gas.
My thoughts are that it isn't getting enough gas to start due to worn rings and valves not sucking hard enough.
My TT was always like that when I was a kid and my grandfather was using it in the orchard. Once hot you didn't want to shut it off until you were finished because it was so hard to start when hot.
Years later, when I got the truck it was not running. I put in new valves, rings, rebuilt the carb (an NH), fresh rebuilt coils, etc. It doesn't do that anymore and I never really figured out why it did, but I think it was carburetion.
I'm thinking carburetion also but it has a new carb (freshly rebuilt) on it so that isn't a sure bet.
These symptoms have come on gradually. When I first got it back on the road in early spring she ran and started like a new car.
Hmmm.... maybe a dirty carb? It IS an old gas tank. Fuel line is no where near the exhaust pipe.
I would try closing the plug gap a little. Too much gap makes for hard starting, but ok when running.
When in this situation crack the drain on the carb just to be sure fuel is there. If it's
dry obviously that's the problem. If you have fuel at the carb and your needle setting is OK try (as suggested) a bit of choke. Your compression pressure is not helping the situation. I'm assuming those numbers are on a hot engine but if it starts cold when they'd be slightly lower it leads me to thing that's not the cause of your problem.
In the past I was a Ford mechanic for 38 years. What I learned during this time is that compression, ignition and gas must be all alright to easy start an engine, warm or cold.
During this tread there were a lot of suggestions about the gas and ignition, don't forget the compression. The valve gap is one of the reasons why an engine is hard to start when warm. No gap or a to small gap will result in an open valve when the engine is warm, tired piston rings have the same result, there will be a lost of compression. Just make a total tune up.
It really does help if you open (enrichen) the carb some then after it has run some lean it back down.
Checked the routing of the gas line. I did a nice job.
Opened both the carb bowl and sediment bowl and they both drained nicely.
Pulled the carb bowl off and changed out the needle valve only. Put it all back together and so far so good! Cross EVERYthing!
Went to town and sold eggs, had dinner and a drink, came home and she took right off again.
Forgot to mention previously that I had also removed the hot air pipe. I think we may have it solved!
My T has the same problem. It doesn't like to start if it's warm and been sitting more than a few minutes. I discovered that if I leave the throttle wide open after I turn the ignition off (obviously close it before starting again!), then it's really easy to start. Just one or two quarter turns of the crank with the choke on, then it'll start right up.
My theory is that it builds up excessive gas fumes in the manifold if the throttle is closed and the engine is warm. Leaving the throttle open helps those fumes dissipate. I don't know if I'm right or wrong on this, but it seems to work for me!
Cameron - This is an interesting thread. I read what you wrote very carefully and I think you're on to something. However, I would think that closing the throttle when you shut the engine off would be more apt to leave raw gasoline in the cylinders. Closed throttle is what produces maximum vacuum. When you turn the ignition off, I would think that the last few strokes of the pistons would continue to draw in fuel, but that fuel doesn't burn due to no ignition. I think when you leave the throttle wide open when you turn the ignition off, two things would happen; because a wide open throttle produces the least vacuum possible, which pulls less fuel into the cylinders, plus, the added rush of air thru' those last couple strokes as the engine "coasts" to a stop would tend to clear out at least some of the unburned fuel. I might be "all wet", but that's my "theory", and it is just that,....a "theory"! (???) I'll bet there's a few forum guys out there that know a lot more about it,.....(???) Anyone?
Harold, Fuel is drawn into the engine as a result of air flow through the venturi, which creates the low pressure over the main jet, drawing fuel from the float chamber, therefore with the throttle open more air flow and more gasoline into the cylinders. Closing the throttle reduces the air flow through the venturi drawing less gasoline into the engine. With the throttle closed, Vacuum (low pressure)occurs above the throttle plate, above the main jet, so it doesn't pull any fuel. Basically,your theory is opposite to how a carburetor actually functions. But it is an interesting thought process.
Thanks John - I only had one cup of coffee this morning, and maybe this was a "two-cup morning"!
In thinking more about all this, I have to say that to "clear out" a "flooded" condition, I still open the throttle wide open and crank the engine to rectify the "flooded" condition, and it seems to work for me!
Would that be because opening the throttle enables more air flow through the carb and into the cylinders, thus clearing the flooded (raw gas) combustion chambers?
Harold, your procedure to clear a flooded engine is correct, think back to the days of "modern" carburetors, say, the 1960's. What did the owner's manual tell you to do when the engine was flooded? Put the gas pedal to the floor and hold it there while you cranked the engine! This did two things:
1) The "choke unloader" linkage mechanically opened the choke all the way, over-riding the normal bi-metallic spring linkage.
2) Fully opened the throttle, which allowed all the extra air from having the choke fully open get into the cylinders and dilute the over-rich mixture.
I still use this procedure on my 1971 Plymouth GTX in the rare case that I flood it (I am careful not to touch the gas pedal until the engine is cranking on a hot engine start).