Tried a original Ford timer- well, half original

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Tried a original Ford timer- well, half original
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Robison on Thursday, August 07, 2014 - 01:04 am:

I've been a devout Anderson fan and still am. I'd heard of the issues of brand X timers, so I never gave them the time of day. I bought a 1923 touring about a month ago and it had what appeared to be an original Ford timer case and a new roller assembly.
The 300 miles I put on the timer it pretty much performed flawlessly (it did hick-up a couple times about the 250 mile mark) and it never left me stranded. I was driving home from our club work night last night when at a stop light it began to run really rough and was popping through the carb. I pulled down the throttle and the roughness went away. When I came home from work tonight I pulled it apart and it was totally worn out. I have switched back to an Anderson, I am now glad to say I don't have to do that again. Here's to 10,000 service free miles! ;)

P.S. - This Anderson is a one off, It was given to my Wife from Frank Fenton. She has a pink Model T and he thought it was only fitting it have a Pink timer. Alas it never made it on the car, she kept it as a spare.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Thursday, August 07, 2014 - 01:15 am:

Mike, did you ever lubricate the timer?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Thursday, August 07, 2014 - 03:26 am:

Peter Kable:

I ran my old used Anderson in 11 Montana 500s plus many hard miles in the Rockies and never ever lubed it

racer


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Thursday, August 07, 2014 - 04:59 am:

Dave, I don't lube my Anderson either but that's not an Anderson its a normal Ford roller timer.

There are different takes on what to use (grease -oil etc) but nothing is not one of them. The timer has an oil hole.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Thursday, August 07, 2014 - 07:52 am:

My Anderson works flawlessly except for the time I greased it with the Anderson grease. The car ran rough for about 20 minutes which was no surprise to me. I'm not sure if I should grease it again or oil it or run it dry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Thursday, August 07, 2014 - 09:20 am:

I'd say if that's an original Ford timer, it performed well over the life of the car. The wear in the photo is not from 300 miles use. I've always used roller timers. Having to oil them frequently is part of the charm of driving a Model T. If the goal is to eliminate maintenance, then go for an electronic unit, or for that matter build a hot rod.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Robison on Thursday, August 07, 2014 - 09:42 am:

I oiled the timer when I checked it, once! Other than that, no maintenance. The Roller and pin assembly have an 1/8" of slop, in fact the timer started running on the body of the rotor rather than the roller because the pin and roller was worn so badly. I was really happy with how it ran until it wore out.

As far as the Anderson, I don't lube them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Thursday, August 07, 2014 - 07:48 pm:

I always found enough oil vapour gets into the case of the timer that I've never bothered too much about lubricating the flapper of an Anderson. I got about 22,000km life out of my first one. Could have retimed the contacts and got more life from it, but I'm testing a TW now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Thursday, August 07, 2014 - 10:01 pm:

Never oiled my Anderson either. I've removed it once, blew it out and stuck it back on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Friday, August 08, 2014 - 07:39 am:

The reproduction rollers have an excessively stiff spring. That, coupled with not oiling the timer, will quickly cause the timer to be ruined. There is a world of difference comparing a real Ford roller timer to anything else. It is well worth the effort to use a real one. Your Model T will run great.

Ford recommended packing the timer with Vaseline, then oiling it every 100 miles. I've found that if you pack the timer with ordinary wheel bearing grease it lasts a thousand miles or more and does not exhibit any wear between service events.

More info here:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/193779.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Friday, August 08, 2014 - 11:09 am:

Does it rely on the mechanical spring pressure to displace the grease in order to make electrical contact? I agree that excessive spring pressure will cause premature wear, but I wouldn't think you'd want it too light either with all of that grease in there. Also seems like all that extra grease would do little to improve lubrication after the contact assembly pushes it out of the way on the first few rotations.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, August 08, 2014 - 01:19 pm:

I had the opposite spring problem with my new roller.
When I got a new timer and roller (Lang's) the first thing I did was check all the terminal nuts for tightness and was not satisfied so I tightened them and then bored out the race to be sure it was true.
The engine skipped until I slightly shortened the roller spring after which it ran perfectly and did until I sold it.
I trust it's still running fine as the friend who bought it never said anything.s) the first thing I did was check all the terminal nuts for tightness and was not satisfied so I tightened them and then bored out the race to be sure it was true.
The engine skipped until I slightly shortened the roller spring after which it ran perfectly and did until I sold it.
I trust it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Friday, August 08, 2014 - 01:25 pm:

Dan,

I don't know, except that it works great. You don't have to take my word for it - try it and see for yourself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Friday, August 08, 2014 - 03:22 pm:

Looks like an ad' for why you should oil the timer. Not sure how people get away without greasing anderson timers. i had to fill mine with grease or it would fill up with metal flakes. With grease it lasted years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Saturday, August 09, 2014 - 11:00 am:

A few years ago I tried that "pack the timer with ordinary wheel bearing grease" trick and the engine wouldn't run. Cleaned all the grease out and was back in business.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, August 09, 2014 - 11:23 am:

Ken,

Five T's in my garage all run great, roller timers packed with either red Mobil 28 or brown Mobil wheel bearing grease. I bet you had something else wrong. The grease won't keep it from running. That's ridiculous.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Saturday, August 09, 2014 - 12:09 pm:

I tried grease on a roller timer in a good running car and it ran worse. I switched back to light oil and the problem disappeared. I figured the grease was partially insulating the roller and races from good contact, but I don't know. Ford recommended light oil. I never saw any recommendation for grease in a timer, except on this forum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, August 09, 2014 - 01:37 pm:

I sure don't understand what the problem might be Richard.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Saturday, August 09, 2014 - 04:07 pm:

Beats me, Royce. I may give it another try since you've had good results.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Saturday, August 09, 2014 - 04:09 pm:

Here is a thread from 2012 with more detail from Royce and others:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/267441.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester Leighton on Saturday, August 09, 2014 - 08:52 pm:

What was the purpose of putting kerosene in the cylinders while hot every 200 miles?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Saturday, August 09, 2014 - 09:02 pm:

How does "Put Vaseline in the commutator" get translated to mean "Pack the commutator full of wheel bearing grease."?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Sunday, August 10, 2014 - 07:33 am:

Dan,

I don't know. I've been packing timers with grease since before I could read. My dad started working at my grandfather's auto repair shop about 1930. He says that they always packed them with grease, so it predates him too. Generations of Petersons have been doing it since with all of their T's running great.

Here's Dad in 1948 with the first T he bought after getting out of the service after WWII:



Same car in 1952 at a VMCCA meet at Fort Snelling:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren W. Mortensen on Sunday, August 10, 2014 - 07:50 pm:

I think the roller was from a Tiger Timer, not a Ford. These are (or were) notorious for the pin being too soft so the roller would wear it out no matter how much oil you gave it.


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