I recently spoke with an amateur, Eric if you read this and know where to go.
The conversation this morning has inspired me.
We are losing the passion for restoring and essence.
I doubt that a customer of the 20 changed a piece for the simple fact of having a grate, a stroke or a little rust.
Okay, labor was cheap and expensive but with rudimentary machines repairs parts were doing now with latest technology machines are incapable of doing.
We prefer to replace the part, and that's not restore, that's replacing parts.
Many of the pieces we substitute could be rectified or repaired without compromising durability.
I think we need to dedicate time to truly restore our T's
I think the feeling of riding a restored or made by you old-fashioned piece is indescribable.
So are lost ancient techniques work, if no one is looking to convey that knowledge so you can use is lost in favor of replacement.
And that's just what we can change each of us with our files.
Let no one misunderstand me, I'm not saying you have to buy parts only say that parts that can be restored.
That has to be a balance.
Some parts can be "restored". Others must be replaced. Example, a bent fender or even a torn fender can be welded and straightened. However, rotted and rodent eaten upholstery cannot be restored. It must either be left the way it is or replaced. Same goes for the wood parts. A broken crankshaft cannot be restored, it must be replaced. So the closest thing, I guess, to restoration would be to make the car as close as possible to the condition it was when new.
If we take the perspective of a mechanic, Sheetmetal Worker, upholsterer, etc. 20s I guess if I had a broken upholstery sewing.
The fenders were beaten and topped with tin until it perfect, etc. techniques that have perdido.etc., etc.
I have some trouble reading the post but I understand the basic point he is trying to make.I dont know that a bit of laziness is not part of the reason for the way most folks do work nowadays.
It may take a few hours to beat out a fender but only a few 100 to buy and bolt on a new 1 for example. Part of this hobby and tradition is lost in that method.
He is basically trying to say folks need to take more time to fix what is already there instead of bolting new parts together and calling it restored.
That is rebuilt or refurbished.
Overseas this would be more of a priority because they dont have the luxury of going a few miles to get parts or whatever.
I think something was lost in the translation, however, I don't know too many folks on this site that fit into the category he's describing. There was a guy, in the classifieds, stressing over a fender that his shop could have repaired, insisting on a NOS fender to finish his restoration...could that be Eduardo's point?
80 to 100 year old iron when it goes it's best to swallow the idea that some things cant be saved and it's time to replace. I did that with my exhaust manifold recently. Could I have save it? Yes, I could've, welded the cracks up, but it would probably crack again. Metal fatigue is a harsh reality and knowing when to scrap and when to try and save is probably one of the biggest heartbreaks to deal with in this hobby. My car started out very different from what I have now, for one thing it was a real basket case, the rear quarter panel was flattened, and the front cowl was rusted away, because somebody had removed the body and flipped it upside down and left in a muddy barn for 40 to 50 years cowl down (the cowl was buried in the ground). The only new steel on it is the splash aprons and the hood (they were non-existent).
This is what my car used to look like,
This is what my car looks like today.
The only pieces on the body I had to replace were the cowl and the windshield frame, they were too far gone to repair that I had to just replace them with ones I found at a swap meet. I am hoping to get one of those upholstery kits from Classtique to replace my homemade upholstery, my wife wouldn't sit or ride in the car sitting only on the bare springs (even if I put a towel down, lol), so I made the front seat.
i repair parts i find to the best i am able because there are no parts to buy. i understand what he is saying as i find it extremely odd that american replace everything as if you can buy new parts on ebay or something.
Folks have spent time, money, gas, solder, oatmeal and etc trying to repair and patch old T radiators.
After a while 70-100 radiators do wear out. No kidding they really do.
There are some T's that still have them but they are the lucky ones. Most are not.
Here in the states we have good sources for radiators. Old or new. But when you don't have access to anything but what you have you do the best you can.
I would save anything that can realistically be saved, but there comes a time for some parts to be replaced. The exhaust manifold on my T is new. The old one was warped and the sealing rings simply would not go into place. The headlight reflectors were dull and had several cracks. Again, time for replacement. Two headbolts were replaced - one wasn't correct, I didn't like the look of the threads on the other. I could go on. I will not allow my T to turn into my George Washington's axe which really did belong to our first President - it has had three new handles and a new head though.
Many things can be restored, and that's what should be done. Other things should be replaced. As John pointed out, many times a new radiator (or a recore) is the only solution. Another replacement that's often the best choice is wood spokes. Some of the suggested remedies I see for deteriorated spokes are downright scary.
I was wondering if you got your differential problem fixed?
No, the housing used Bob's sent me this cracked.
I ask the welder, if you can solder the casing.
If I said no, I would like to accept your offer.
PS: Forgive me if I express myself badly but use google translator
Contact Bob, I am sure he will make good for you on it.
I sent several emails but have not been answered yet.
It has a complicated email address.
Wooden spokes can be restored....even rotten and split....missing, no. I don't know what you mean by *scary*...but unless you understand the processes you will not appreciate how effective they are. I wish I could publish the methods I have used, but I failed to record/photograph the methods.
I may have a little different look or may I say a thought as to why more and more people are buying new parts rather than trying to repair or fix the old.......Remember, this is just my view point and it don't mean a thing......
When I graduated in 1968 I went to work the same week for the L&N Railroad as a car/knocker, a 4 year apprenticeship.....We welded, heated reshaped and bent metal, repaired anything and everything broken......that was our job.....I quit there and when to a large factory and went to a millwright apprenticeship which was another 4 year program that I completed in 2 years due to my previous experience.....We did all our welding and fabrication, milling, lath work, plumbing pipe fitting, rigging etc.....you get the picture.....I then took all of that experience and went into the Corps of Engineers Hydro Power Training Program where I completed another 4 year program in electrical, mechanic and operations.....
I became a senior mechanic and later took another additional 1 year cross trained and became a Hydro Power Senior Operator......
And finally I took the Hydro Power Training Position for the last 12 years before I retired....
Having bored you with all the bull, I was trying to make a point....this point.....
I have watched and experienced in my short working career master mechanics and electricians become part swappers....NOT because of their choice.....but because it saves the company money......
The very companies that have shops full of equipment to complete any job and in the past has, today they have employees that can't properly use them....And don't misunderstand me....I AM not saying all mechanics and electricians can't do their job.....that's not my point....
I think throughout the many years of older men and woman retiring and leaving the work force the training programs and skills of many of those people have also left......
We had a scheduled maintenance program that we would routinely inspect and repair (yes repair) our equipment and make new parts in the shops, rebuild shafts, braze and turn down shafts as needed, Cut-out and replace coils in generators, run all necessary test needed, repair and replace pumps I could go on for days....
The work has slowly shifted to replace as needed....I don't mean repair.....get on the phone find a vendor, buy and replace.....all of the old electrical mechanical breakers and such has gone to plc's and electronics....
I think you all get the picture of what I am saying..... This New generation of restorers are used to buying and replacing....That is the world they live in and the way the world has become....Body shops alike.....The more fenders and body parts they can replace the more money they charge....
It's sort of the same in a way when I listen to the knowledge some of you twenty year older than me Model T mechanics have .....I sometimes feel stupid when I ask you question and get my answer because I couldn't or didn't figure it out before I asked....or at least I should have researched it more before I asked like I would of had to do if I was still working and couldn't do it myself.....
And yes, sometimes things need to be replaced....that isn't my point....
We have a NEW generation following behind us that probably like me don't have the room for all the tools needed to be good restorers and if they did they probably couldn't find them for sale nor could afford them....
Just a lot of Thoughts for nothing......Chet
When I speak of restoration, I mean try to repair parts of the vehicle in question and, if you can not find used parts or NOS, I think that's the closest I can be a vehicle to its original state.
Chet shown as part of the problem.
There are cars that every day using techniques and trades that are disappearing because there are no parts for them are restored and repaired.
Still there are coachbuilders that make bodies of wood ash or beech wood etc.
There are still blacksmiths, making impossible pieces.
It depends on each of us that these trades are not lost
Eduardo and I discovered each other on this forum and found that we live less than an hour away. Yesterday we got to meet in person for the first time. He came to my garage and gave me a lot of good ideas for repairing my car.
We also discussed other aspects regarding the restoration of an antique car. Usually we prefer to restore parts and make them useable again, other times we must replace the part because the original is beyond repair. We don't often have the option of selecting between different good, used parts and so we end up having to having to buy a new reproduction which takes away from the authenticity, the magic and the wonder of a century old running car. I think this is what Eduardo is referring to.
We see many comments made on the forum telling the readers to look replace worn parts with good, used parts which are are readily available at most swap meets. Both Eduardo and I have bought used parts and had our share of finding them in unusable condition when they arrive. That's weeks after ordering the part and paying shipping costs about 5 to 10 times what it would cost inside the USA. When the part arrives we then pay an additional 30% of the value of the parts + shipping to the government and other middle men. Inside the USA, if the part is wrong, or broken or won't work for some reason, the seller can just ship out another.
I think we would all agree that we prefer for a seller to send us a well represented part which has been inspected to assure it is a quality piece and for the correct application. This goes multiple times over for the overseas restorers. My message is simply to make everyone aware (whoever doesn't already know it) that a lot more time, money and effort go into getting parts for our cars located outside the USA.
Eduardo, I hope that's at least part of what you were trying to express. We were writing at the same time. If it wasn't, we'll continue tomorrow. It's lights out for me now...
Eduardo, espero que lo que escribí fue al menos parcialmente lo que querías expresar. Si no fuera así, continuaremos mañana. Ahora me acuesto que estoy hecho polvo!
Yeah, basically what I meant, my problem with the language and google, I would not put easy but I try to improve
Yes, basically what I meant, my problem with the language and google, I would not put easy but I try to improve