Odd Driveshaft Nut at Pinion; Remove or Leave?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Odd Driveshaft Nut at Pinion; Remove or Leave?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 03:11 pm:

As most Model T projects go, I had some lateral play at my wheels so I pulled off the rear axle to rebuild, once I did that I pulled my drive-shaft and found it is too far worn(roller bearing exploded and driveshaft was badly worn and U-joint was shot)Luckily, I have a spare driveshaft but it has an odd square nut at the pinion...which is super tight and I can't budge it. The roller looks good inside from what I can see. My hope is to shoot some bearing grease into it and lube it up- I was wondering if anyone has ever successfully done this without taking off the spool? I know this isn't optimal, but that nut is very, very tight on the pinion shaft!nut


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 03:30 pm:

James personally I would find the correct nut so you can put a cotter pin through for safety. When I took my rear axel apart the nut was actually loose and the cotter pin was the only thing holding it from falling off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 03:32 pm:

James, You can drill it in place and install a cotter pin in. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 03:36 pm:

Yea, that makes sense. But what about getting lube into the roller bearing- I was thinking about somehow shooting it in like to get it all over the bearing. Not sure how.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 03:36 pm:

James have you taken the u joint off to check the bushing in the other end? That will also allow you to pull the driveshaft out of the housing for inspection.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 03:41 pm:

Not yet- doesn't that involve drilling out the pin and then later re-riveting it back onto the shaft?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jeff cordes on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 03:44 pm:

You also have a cast end torque tube for use with an enclosed spool. You can use a later torque tube on an enclosed spool but not the other way around.
There is a lip on the earlier torque tubes and a corresponding notch on the enclosed spool. They are designed to work together. The 2 pieces you have were not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 03:46 pm:

Robert, are you referring to the driveshaft pin in the U-joint?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 04:32 pm:

That gear has some pits (at least from the picture looks like pits) in the surface of the teeth which would make a noisy gear if you don't replace the gear.
Norm Note, you might be able to get the nut off if you remove the universal joint and slide off the tube. Then clamp the square spline at the U joint end of the shaft in a vise. Then a wrench should loosen the nut.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 04:53 pm:

The driveshaft thread is a fine pitch. Square nuts typically are not sold in fine pitches. Either someone has rethreaded your drive shaft, or that nut has been rammed on there. There should also be no washer.

If it were mine, I would remove the nut, if for no other reason than to inspect the driveshaft bearing sleeve that is very often worn and can cause big trouble later when it breaks. I would also want to know the condition of the drive shaft keyway & woodruff key. Be safe!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 05:04 pm:

Remember that your foot brake operates through the rear end so since something is obviously not original here, you might be in for the ride of your life if you proceed. Take it apart and inspect it. Usually too large of a nut will hit the ring gear or differential gear case when you try to assemble it. The corners of a square nut typically make a larger radius circle of rotation than those of the same size hex nut. The correct pinion gear nut is also a special shallow nut so as to give ample clearance to the parts that the nut can otherwise collide against.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 05:11 pm:

Okay, I drove out the U-joint pin and that front part looks OK, that rear nut looks odd and maybe dangerous. I need, if I have this correctly, to use the enclosed earlier spool with this torque tube? Do I have that correctly? I have two drive shafts and tubes- I'll try and get one good one from both sets. On my first one, that came off the car, the roller bearing inside race on the driveshaft was spinning and cracked. I wonder if I can get a new one to press onto that shaft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 05:28 pm:

James, I would get a modern pinion bearing set up from fun projects and be done with it. That will make it trouble free for most likely the rest of your life. MHO. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 05:54 pm:

Never thought of that maybe a good idea. I'll look into it, thanks for the tip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 06:16 pm:

If anyone has used John's modern set-up from Funprojects, I'd like to know how easy it is to set up and what it eliminated?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Bohlen, Severn MD on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 06:50 pm:

James,

Easy as falling off a log. You get rid of the pinion bearing, inner sleeve and in the cars of the in closed pinion bearing housing the outer sleeve,as well.

Do a forum search for Fun Projects pinion bearing.

Good luck.
Larry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 06:50 pm:

James,
Go to the Fun projects website and check on the installation instructions that's found with the pinion bearing information.
Its what you will receive when you buy one and it will give you the information you need.

I have them in 2 of my cars and they work really well. It really makes the T drive shaft assembly a better unit. It is a real improvement.

If you remove the square nut I hope it wasn't forced on and ruined your shaft. Good luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, August 12, 2014 - 11:12 am:

There are those who like John Regans set up. But for me, I will always use the original driveshaft bearings. The deciding factor will always be the original Hyatt bearing. If you have a good one, you are lucky, if not then Johns set up is the only way to go. I'm working on one now, and it will be 100% original from front to back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, August 12, 2014 - 11:45 am:

Plus a million on Fun Projects Pinion Bearing setup!! That is the business. No reason to ever do anything else. Highly recommended. Super easy, falling off log is apt description.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Tuesday, August 12, 2014 - 11:52 am:

Thanks for all the suggestions Gents!


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