1917 - 1922 Open Car Windshield Hinge Assembly

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: 1917 - 1922 Open Car Windshield Hinge Assembly
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, August 13, 2014 - 01:43 am:

This is, as far as I know correct (for 22 at least). I saw that many of the parts (well the ones with numbers) seemed to span 17 to 22, so that's how I titled it.

I am interested in all the different windshield hinge types. If you have any of the earlier ones disassembled and can take a few pictures, I'd appreciate it.

There are a bunch of drawings I haven't posted here (or on facebook for that matter either), mainly because I've been goofing around and not been on here (or there) much. As I go through them I'll post them here to get everyone's input on them.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, August 13, 2014 - 06:12 am:

Martin,

I really appreciate you taking the time to do the exploded views. And yes putting them on the forum etc. to have others take a look at them will allow you to make them more accurate. In this case, a couple of minor of recommendations. I’m 99% sure you have the 1915 to mid-1917 windshield hinges drawn instead of the mid-1917 to 1922 ones. Also, it is early and I haven’t had my first cup of caffeine yet, but I’m 99 % sure you need to change the Left and Right on the illustrations. Below is a photo of a 1915-mid-1917 hinge. Note the round hinge part goes on the driver/passenger side of the windshield. Also note that the hinge arms are equal in length.



And below is a photo of a mid-1917 to 1922 style. Note the arms are no longer equal in length.



I’ll also try to look at the parts closer after I finish my cup of tea.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, August 13, 2014 - 07:34 am:

Hap, much appreciated, these small details I never noticed before. Ok, I'll make the change. Is there any other differences you can think of, like with the bolt, spring and thimble for these two?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, August 13, 2014 - 07:39 am:

LOL, hmmm I think you're right I've labeled the wrong ones "Right" and "Left".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, August 13, 2014 - 08:34 am:

Martin,

Below is an illustration from a 1915-16ish price list of parts (before the unequal length hinges came out).

1915-early 1917 windshield parts.jpg

And below are the part numbers from a 1919 Price List of Parts -- note it omits the dates of 1915-1916 for the equal length hinges but you can tell that is the proper date as you compare the other parts. Many of the parts are the same 1915-1919 (and actually through 1922 model year).

1915-1919 windshield parts - no pictures.jpg

You may want to consider adding a note to your drawings "Caution -- the parts can easily be assembled incorrectly -- they fit together fine but they don't work correctly." or something to that effect. You will see several photos of restored/worked on cars where they have the hinges installed on the wrong side. And in one case they mixed the left hand hinge parts with the right hand hinge parts (they fit ok) and it took a while to figure out what had happened. With the later unequal length hinges it is easier to tell what part goes where. But if you have a box of parts already disassembled it can get challenging without a good guide or previous knowledge.

Again, thank you for taking the time to draw the exploded views and to share them. Long term, I would like to discuss with you the possibility of making them available on the MTFCA site and/or in an expanded encyclopedia. Please see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/111749.html for a dream I am hoping to work on more in the future. Your drawings could help make a lot of things clearer -- especially for those who do not have another T to compare things with. (Of course sometimes the other T may be assembled incorrectly .... but we won't discuss if that has ever happened before.)

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, August 13, 2014 - 09:35 pm:

Hap, woo this will help a lot. Now I can actually put some part numbers on the drawing and just not what I can find in Langs catalog, lol.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 08:03 am:

Martin,

Thank you for the e-mail. I look forward to working with you and others to help add to our Model T knowledge/illustrations/understanding.

Below are the "new parts" for the mid 1917 to 1922 windshield for the open cars:







Again thank you for all your effort in creating the exploded diagrams. And if others see some items that are out of place etc. -- please let us know. I still have not taken the time to really/had the time to see if anything is misplaced or missing. Another set of eyes can often spot something that someone else may have missed.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 07:54 pm:

Hap, on the last post you made, the part number 7816X. Looks like a cup with a radius cut in it to fit the windshield frame. Where does that go on a 22? I'm pretty sure my car does not have one. On the other previous posted pictured parts list, that same part number (7816X) is the hinge bolt castellated nut. On this pic however it's clearly not a nut, but some sort of cap or cup. As far as I know part number 7824ARX is used on the ends of both the upper and lower windshield frames, right? And are the same as the ones used before, right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 08:39 pm:

Here is the 1915-1916ish windshield hinge nut:



and from a catalog:



Notice the 1915 hinge has a "band" around where the bumps are, too.

: ^ )

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 08:44 pm:

Woo this is an interesting turn of events...you're right I didn't notice on the parts picture that it does indeed have that band you're talking about. Ok an easy fix and one more thing that helps distinguish it from the later hinge.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 09:09 pm:

Keith,

Thanks for adding the photos of the 1915 - ?. And of course with most things Ford did there would have been some overlap when old and new styles were used. And some of the difference in the "band" "ring" "ridge" on the hinge may have been a result of who manufactured it when. Yet another item to look for -- but not tonight.


Please see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/24895.html for a discussion of Model T part numbers & factory numbers. Also see http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/partnum.htm for a short description of the Model A Ford parts numbering method which is really close to the T numbering method and describes it easily.

In the case of the 7824X in the top illustration and the 7824ARX in the lower illustration – they are the same part. And yes it was used on both ends of the top and bottom windshield frames 1915-1922 to hold the glass in place. But when it was replaced in the normal production when they went to the 1923 slant windshield style and no longer used the 7824X during normal production. I was surprised they added the A to it – as often that indicates a different designed part took the first part number’s place. But in this case that did not occur but they still gave it an “A.” The “X” was used for many body related items. The “R” was routinely added when a part was used for replacement on cars already out on the road but not in normal production. So in the case of the 7824X it was called that until the Dec 1922 Price List of Parts when the part number and the factory number were changed to 7824ARX and 7824AR respectfully. That is why in the Aug 5, 1928 Price List of Parts it is listed as 7824ARX part number and 7824AR factory number.

The 7816X in the top illustration was the 3/8 by 24 TPI nut for the windshield hinge (2 per car 1915 - ? not sure) that Keith posted above. In the Nov 1916 Price List of Parts they changed the part number to 1154X (factory number 1154) which was the 3/8 by 24 TPI nut that was also used to secure the radiator mounting top (not the bottom) and it would have been the castle style nut. It was listed until the Apr 1922 Price List of Parts came out at which time the “List” said “use 3939C” which was the same thing. So if you took your 1915 Ford in around 1920 and said the windshield hinge nut had fallen off – they would have given you a castle nut to replace it.

Since the 7816X part number and 7816 factory number was no longer used by Ford starting in the Nov 1916 Price List of Parts, they reused the number to describe the CONE (at windshield frame hinge) starting in the Apr 1923 Price List of Parts. That “cone” fits the slant windshield frame hinge on the 1923-1927 USA model year open cars with the slanted windshield. So, you are correct that your 1922 with the straight windshield should not have those.

That can get a little confusing, but once you understand what normally happened and that there were exceptions – it makes fairly good sense. All of that information is from Bruce's Price List of Parts which is part of his "Model T Comprehensive Encyclopedia" available from: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/333725.html?1357665853

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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