I have been amazed and a little worried by the number of recent changes going on in the Model T retail supply business:
1) Ben Hardeman at Texas T is retiring.
2) Bill Stipe is retiring and is no longer making 280 cams (There is ONE 280 left at Snyder's on the shelf. I got the other one.)
3)Chaffin's is for sale.
4)Bob's Antique Auto is closing.
So what will happen to the Texas T distributor, the Ruckstell axel, the 280 cam, Sure-Stop brakes, and probably a whole bunch of stuff that I am not even aware of (Rajo Kit?)
Will we eventually be down to the "BIG THREE", Lang's, Snyder's and Mac's? The times they are achangin', and I am not sure I like the implications for the Model T hobby.
Does anyone have any more information or comments?
I figure you have to have people that have a love for the hobby and deep pockets, there can't be any real money in it. KGB
The problem is the deep pockets. Most of these guys started their businesses as a hobby or to fill a need for parts. After many years of accumulating inventory and customers, their hobby or side business came to be a real business. It takes a lot of money to buy an established business, and there's no guarantee you'll be as successful as your predecessor. I'd love to own my own business, but the only way I can do it is to sell everything I own (including a few select body parts) and try to survive on Ramen Noodles for years until the business starts making money.
Maybe if it were possible to sell off portions of a business, like wiring harnesses or front axle parts, enterprising young people (like me) could afford to buy out some of the older businesses. This idea of buying everything at once puts it out of most of our price ranges, causing the old parts suppliers to die off.
Yea, well that's what worries me. You can almost see the Model T retail supply businesses vanishing before our eyes.
Am I the only person who is aware that this is happening? As these businesses disappear, so does our Model T hobby. The Model T hobby is popular and widespread because it is CHEAP. It is cheap because there are lots of people out there making and selling parts.
How would you like to pay for restoring a 1910 Cadillac? Imagine the cost and difficulty in finding parts.
Jon its not just Model T's. There other suppliers as well as catalog companies that is also retiring, closing or being bought out. 30's-70's GM,Ford, Mopar etc. The supply chain is shrinking.
What if you gave a party and no one came? There is risk in opening a business. No one will risk spending to manufacture parts unless there is a market for them.
With some companies going out of business, there is more business for each company which remains. So perhaps things aren't as grim as it might seem.
Is Langs shrinking or growing?
Tbay has changed the game.
Don Lang makes a LOT of money on eBay. He is a credit to the hobby.
For the companies left you'll probably see increases in prices on certain items
Robert, my thoughts exactly. Stuff will be there, but it will be costly as the suppliers will be fully aware they have it, and if you want it you have to cough up the higher cost.
T's will be as expensive as any other old car to restore before long and it will finally meet with with the age old idea that playing with old cars is a rich mans game.
I can't help but think that the Model T guys have had it easy getting parts and are somewhat spoiled.
I remember having to scour the junkyards for Pontic Fierro parts and being excited to find one in a yard that was only 25 miles away.
Or try getting parts for an Alfa Romeo that has not been imported into the US.
It is sad to learn that some of the guys are retiring, but be happy that Don Lang is hanging in there and rejoice in his move to a bigger facility. Royce is right he is a credit to the hobby . Many T's will continue to run because of his dedication to give customer service, willingness to share his knowledge, and ability to provide the parts we need
BTW - Making money is part of the free enterprise system - It is good that competition helps keep the prices down but remember that Lang's does not exist to loose money
Jon, Chaffin's is not closing, we are only looking for someone interested in buying the business. But that takes money which is in short supply thanks to the president We have no intentions of going out of business. Not, after spending 41 years building it and developing products like the Ruckstell Axle, New camshafts, yes we manufacture very good new camshafts, all of the spring shackles, adjustable crank pulleys, firewall shields, drive shaft roller bearing assemblies, wind wings, brass robe rails, connecting rod bolts, high volume intake manifolds, dual exhaust manifolds, speedometer drive mounting sets and countless other small parts for the Model T Ford. 99% of our new parts are American made. We believe in supporting America. The other dealers would cry if we stopped making these parts. So if the business does not sell we are not going away like others. we will hang in there because we are dedicated to our customers and the hobby. I will just have to put off working on my 1909, 1911, 1913 and 1914 and live to be 100 or 110. Wrinkle city, here I come. Actually i'm 78 with a beautiful younger wife who keeps me young.
Ford doesn't make it easy for startups if the repro part has their name on it. The license adds a considerable amount that has to be paid up front as well as on each part. You have to include that in your cost to produce and on small parts, it doesn't leave much room for profit and still give the purchaser a bargain price. And you have to sell a lot of them!
I don't understand the licensing thing. If Ford isn't making the part, they shouldn't be liable for the quality of the part. If I can't take my T to the local Ford dealership for service, why do they get to choose which parts are legal to produce? Surely any patents related to any kind of specialty T part have run out, as far as FoMoCo is concerned. Maybe somebody with more experience in deciphering legalese can explain that one to me.
Sorry in advance if this causes thread drift, but it does seem to be a large stumbling block in the aftermarket parts game.
Using their name I think is all that matters.
Makes no sense as if you buy a T and get a new brass radiator for it, you pay extra 50 bucks for the name to be on it. Ford gets that and the free advertising that it generates showing their cars last a 100 years with proper maintenance.
It's called trade mark copyright protection.
Corporations spend millions every year to protect their trade mark. Back in the mid-eighties, when the "Big Three" started dropping the hammer on the reproduction parts manufacturers, the big boys claimed that the licensing fee was to pay for use of the trade mark and to maintain product quality of items bearing the corporate logo.
They didn't want people to associate shoddy repro parts with the company name.
The fact is, G.M., Ford, and Chrysler Corporation don't give a South-bound end of a North-bound rat if your precious little "correct script low radiator shell" gets made or not. They'd like nothing more than to see your car in a museum and you buying a new one. If you use their trade mark, you gotta' pay up.
And don't think you can go into business making reproduction Essex hubcaps. Essex was part of Hudson which became American Motors. Chrysler bought the rights to that name too. It's just a matter of time before they'll be at your door with a cease and desist order.
Mack summed it up well. Using their name is all that matters. If you put their name on it, you have to pay. That's why, when I had the sign business, I didn't make Ford signs. It was several thousand up front in licensing fees, and I couldn't produce and sell the volume to make it pay.
And Mike is correct about successor companies retaining the rights to old brands, sometimes. That's true only if they choose to renew the trade mark. I was often surprised and delighted to find that old brands had lapsed into public domain and I could make the signs without fees and without fear of legal interference. In most cases where the brands were still current, I was able to make the signs because the companies were easy to deal with and the fees were reasonable. Phillips, Texaco, and Sinclair were some of those. Not so with the Big Three. They were just too expensive for me.
Yep. It does cost a few dollars to trademark and protect your brand name and logo.. Been there an done that! "RAJO" (Serial Number: 86009559) is the intellectual property of RAJO Reproductions LLC.
That was the reason I didn't go forward with the radiator shells. Just too costly to put Ford on them. I'd have to sell around 3,000 of them to just break even. I already made most of the dies and have most of the parts for the press. Space and assembly is all that was needed.
Glad to hear that Chaffin's will be around for awhile whoever is running it. According to Ben Hardeman, he feels the same way. He is looking for a buyer for Texas T who has a history with Model T's and will support the hobby. Steve Lang told me that they were interested in Texas T, but they did not have the money right now because of their recent move.
Anyway, I guess this will all get sorted out eventually. We are all watching with great interest...
It might turn out that Texas T Parts will sell separately from the Sure-Stop disc brakes and some other lines of parts. Chaffin's might sell separately from the Ruckstell business. Breaking those businesses down into smaller chunks would make it easier for someone to afford the price tags.
I'm not speaking for either Ben or Glenn, of course; just saying that could happen to facilitate the sales.
The demographics of "old car" collecting has and is changing. The parts supply chain is no longer made in America. The Model T is over a 100 years old and even on this forum it can be found the current owners and drivers want faster and more reliable Model T cars. Who wants to operate a care with a miss understood ignition, a transmission that is neither manual nor automatic, and it is normal to operate an engine whose cooling system boils all the time. Most are still learning that their car does not need or care for leaded vs unleaded fuel. As for suppliers and future owners of the "old car" see http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/2013-01/03/content_16077781.htm
Not a bad idea. Maybe it would make it easier to sell the business(s). The only reservation I have is that then those products would then be under separate control and might just eventually disappear from the market. It helps to have them subsidized by a larger business.
Jon, I think you're worrying too much. Whoever would buy the disc brakes or Ruckstells would be someone like Lang's or Snyder's, both of which are bigger than Chaffin's and Texas T Parts. And as long as there is a demand for the parts, they will remain available.
Chaffin's and Lang's offers the BEST customer Service!
Stock on the shelf is one thing!
Correct advice and help when needed is more important!
I hate returning defective parts and replacing parts that were not needed!
Price is one thing and quality is another!
The RAJO business is a separate entity from my father's business. I have also entertained selling the business to another Model T enthusiast. Any interest?
It's a tough business. You get a burst of sales from say a newbie and then you might not hear from him again for years depending on the car's useage. That's why the smaller specialised guys got bigger in the first place. Trying to drag in more trade. We see a lot of barn finds here but it isn't enough to carry all the jobbers out there. I'll bet it tapers off quite a bit in winter too. I had no idea about the licensing business. Just another nail in the Mahonany Overcoat.
We don't sell retail, because I don't want to be bothered shipping parts all the time, but we sell to all the big guys, and we are not planning to wrap it up anytime soon.
Charlie B. You are right, winter here in the Midwest does slow down, I do not think a lot of people understand that the Model T business is not like a super market, when we have parts made to keep the cost down some times we need to make a five or even ten year supply, which when you pay out all that money for one item it hurts, if we only ran six month or one year supply we would have to charge double, we charge actual postage plus two dollars to cover box, tape, and time to pull and pack the orders, yes Ford takes a big chunk if we make something with their name on it, we are hoping to restart after family issues are solved, it also makes it very rough when some one makes a good quality part then some one else see's it selling good and sends it overseas and has it made then undercuts the U.S.A. part, then everyone thinks all that item comes from overseas, dealers do offer a wholesale price on their items but now a few dealers are so close on their dealer price to their retail that the smaller dealers cant get it to our door with postage and sell it at the same price, this is a business and we have to pay gas and electric plus the people that work for us, believe me no one here is getting rich, Bob
To show you how screwed up California is and why businesses have a problem making a profit, California charges business at least $800.00 a year in income tax if you make a profit or not. If you make a profit you pay more.
To show you how screwed up California is and why businesses have a problem making a profit, California charges business at least $800.00 a year in income tax if you make a profit or not. If you make a profit you pay more.
Glen, that charge is for corporations, LLC, etc. For that $800 you get protection of your personal assets, if you keep the accounting separate. A proprietorship doesn't pay anything until profitable.
You can always incorporate in Nevada, and maybe save a few hundred. Or you could do like Google and the other turncoat corporations, and move HQ to Cayman Islands or somewhere. That way, you don't pay any federal tax, yet get all the benefits of being and selling in the US.
Paying money to be afforded "protection" -- the government merely adopted the mob's business model.
Protection? Right. If you don't pay the tax the government will seize your property. Sounds more like a bribe to me.
Too many people object to paying their fair share of the cost to live in this great nation. For $800 a year, your business is granted personhood, with all the rights, and few of the responsibilities of a real citizen.
The real wrath should be directed toward Google and the other turncoat corporations.
sorry, I got screwed twice. Wish I enjoyed It. I don't think anyone should have to pay tax when they make no profit, whether you are a private individual in business or a corporation. The state doesn't protect you from anything or provide you any service for the money charged. You first have to pay the state to become a corporation and then You are being charged for the privilege of doing business in California. This state stinks and that is why so many businesses are leaving California.
It costs a whopping $35 to establish a corporation in California, and then $800 a year. I've done it a few times. You always have the option to dissolve the corporation and continue business as a proprietor, which I've done also.
Corporate law gives the same protections from lawsuits to losers as well as gainers. If $2 a day makes a noticeable difference in the bottom line, then it's not a real business.
I have been in all four positions in recent years.
The US govt should outlaw states from giving tax breaks to attract businesses. Toyota is collecting $Millions from Texas for moving there. Guess who has to make up those $Millions? The working class in Texas.
I'll be the first to admit the RAJO head business has not been very lucrative. Especially, when I have to shell out eight hundred bucks each year to the government for doing nothing at all. When your run a very small business, eight hundred dollars each year makes a significant impact on your bottom line. But then again, I guess someone must pay for all the social aid given to those here illegally.
Why incorporate then? Is somebody forcing you?
Who is supposed to pay for all the different laws and administering for corporations? I don't know that $800 is a fair number, but it can't be zero. Should you be paying the same $800 as all large corporations? What would be a fair number?
Sales tax is the real burden. Merchants collect it for the state. That's why it's so popular with governments.
You resent aiding the poor illegals? I understand that. Most of the illegals and other immigrants are driven to succeed, unlike too many US citizens. What hurts is when people pay their gardeners and housekeepers in cash. Those workers are more likely to get social aid, as they have no visible means of income.
The $800.00 is not a cost of doing business that the state imposes, it is a minimum income tax even when you don't have an income and that's not fair. Sales tax is another issue. Business must collect tax for the state. The state pays nothing for this service and then fines you 10 percent if you are a day late paying it to the state. Illegals are not only criminals by being here illegally but they are as you point out not paying taxes on their income while accepting state aid. That makes them a criminal on two counts so why not deport them? I as a citizen can't get state aid but an illegal can. The whole system is screwed up and needs to be changed. Our liberal politicians care about everyone in the world except you and me, the citizens. When they are spending our unborn grandchildren's tax money, that is taxation without representation and is illegal but they don't care. They should all be in jail. How did this thread get sidetracked?
Rick, I hate to contribute to this conversation but I feel for people like Glen and other's who try's to do the right thing in life and the right way.....But I have to say this, I personally know a couple that are not married but live together with three, yes three young children and draw every social freebie available.... Not to include because the male that works only make minimum wage, they get close to $9,800.00 back on income tax each year.....almost as much as he made gross.... And the list goes on.....this thread could go on forever....Unlike many I for some reason feel there will nothing ever be done about all the free money until we find a way to stop the super, super rich from getting it back....think about it...when you give someone money who has nothing, who ends up with it? Walmart, etc.... why wouldn't politicians make sure the tax dollars get into the hands of the poor....it keeps the money flowing back to the super rich and the rich just gets richer.... Can you imagine owning six homes, ranch, Bentley, butler, house keeper....we'll I don't mean to sound jealous but I have two cousins who live like that and they wine and dine Governors and Senators in two different states where they have over six million dollar estates just for that purpose... Then they get awarded the state contracts... Just my thoughts I'll shut up now.....
Why incorporate? In a world where one can be held personally liable for someone else's stupidity, they have every incentive to protect their interests.
A perfect example of this is the main gripe in this thread. Let's say someone manufacturers an accessory brake set-up, and a good one at that. Next, the buyer goes out, does something stupid not even related to the brakes, yet the individual who made them could very well wind up on a list of defendants in a personal injury suit.
It is arrogant to say that if something doesn't make enough of a profit to cover an unjust $800 a year expense that it's not a real business while at the same time bemoaning the fact that fewer and fewer people are taking on the risk of making parts for the restoration market.
It's bigger than that $800 bucks. The whole system is screwed-up. However, many things in the restoration market aren't profitable. People do it because they like doing it, they like providing a service, etc.
If we say "that's not a real business" by that definition -- quite right. At the same time it will be necessary to suck it up and stop complaining as the more obscure things in the restoration parts market vanish as a result of the increase in overhead and overregulation.
Walter, you are exactly right. There is little profit in the new parts business. We do it because we want to support the hobby and those restoring their cars. Then you have the idiots who want to sue everyone in sight. It only takes one to put you out of business and will destroy the hobby. Sad , but true. Incorporation use to give you some protection but not today. you pay the price and get nothing in return. There is no protection for anyone. Just look at what is happening in Missouri. The Officer was tried and convicted without a trial by our President, the Attorney General, the Governor of Missouri and the black lynch mob. Never mind the officer was severly beaten and has a fractured eye socket.
The $800 California corporate annual fee is just a part of the costs of having a corporation. A corporate book has to be kept, meetings recorded, etc., in addition to the normal accounting. If the corp. rents a building, the landlord will require liability insurance, which is many times more than $800.
Try getting liability insurance for aftermarket brake manufacture.
The fact that regulation and overhead is out of control is evident by the shear amount of people that bemoan the death of small parts businesses, yet none step forward to pick up the torch. Who can blame them?
In this era of "big brother", everyone is nostalgic for how things were when the hobby started -- home garages turning out product, small shops with low labor rates, so on and so forth. The simple fact is "big brother" and affordability of product cannot exist side-by-side.
When I moved my business to my "new" shop (previously occupied by the telephone company), I had only been here a few months before I got a visit from our local bureau of "Licenses and Inspections". I was informed that I had to carry a pressure vessel license on my standard 18.5 cfm 80 gallon tank air compressor. They were just making the rounds to renew the licenses on what the telephone company had here previously is how this came to be.
For approximately $200 I have the privilege of operating a compressor that I had heretofore operated for none other than the cost of electric and maintenance. This buys me nothing. It is nothing more than a shake-down by my state government. If it blows, they are liable for nothing. In fact, if it blows while the license they put on it is good, I would probably get fined for that, too. If it needs repair, they are liable for none of the expense. I call it my, "Air Compressor Tax".
Yes, the argument that can be made is if I can't afford $200 bucks every few years, than I shouldn't be in business anyway. What is disgusting about this rationale, and the wide acceptance of it, is -- I could afford to give the state more. Where does it stop? The compressor isn't the only example. To what am I entitled for my efforts? Enough for food and water, maybe a tent, and the rest goes to the state? Don't think that amongst the people who make the rules there aren't ones who think like that. You are merely a peasant.
The concept now is quickly becoming that all personal property is that of the state and we should be privileged to benefit from its use while, in addition to the original purchase of it, we rent it back in perpetuity.
These constant attacks, and the money and energy it takes to deal with them, is why people will need to keep rekindling this nostalgia, because it's not going to get better anytime soon. Both money and energy (motivation) are in short supply as a result of this and until people can invest both in doing what they want to do, rather than feeding the bureaucratic beast, the things we want are going to be in short supply.
Ralph, Running a business and its normal associated costs is a separate issue and has no bearing on the state charging you a ridiculous fee for doing business in the state. And that is exactly what it is. If you don't make a profit you shouldn't pay income tax, but if you are a corporation you do. It is a tax on income even if you have none and that is wrong. This state is greedy and dishonest. Governor Brown promised if we passed Indian Gaming the money the state got would solve our education funding problems. That money now goes to every thing but education. Than the governor said that if we passed the Lotto that money would go to schools. So why is he begging for more money for schools now? Guess why? He is a liar and a crook and belongs in jail for mis-approperation of tax payers money..
I had always thought incorporating separated the owners from any liability that the business might encounter?
If not true I don't see what benefit you gain by being incorporated?
If true $800 is pretty cheap liability insurance.
How do you pay $800 with money that doesn't exist? Goodness sake business isn't the federal government, they can't just print money to cover their expenses. To charge a fee and offer no service is extortion and don't consider it a cost of doing business, we aren't slaves to our government (local, state or federal), the government should work for us.
Incorporating would only be liability insurance if it took the place of liability insurance. It does not.
There are insidious things about corporate income tax that escape the non-involved. Let me give you an example:
Say you have a Model T business. Your sole product is the venerable E-transmission. You don't make 'em, you simply resell them. To go into business, you borrow $100,00.00 (the cost of a single E-transmission) pay all of your business fees, rent, etc. etc. and hang out your shingle.
For income tax purposes, your basis is $100,000.00. The first year is kinda lean. You sell no E-transmissions. The next year however, is better. You sell a unit for $125.000.00. Hurray! you've made $25.000.00 profit (less cost of doing business expenses). You decide that you don't want to go out of the E-transmission business, so you contact your vendor and buy a replacement for your inventory. Lo and behold! there has been a price increase! E-transmissions are now $125.000.00 wholesale. You take your $125,000.00 and buy the replacement. At this point in time you have $0.00 dollars in the bank (or less probably). Yet, your tax basis is $125,000.00. Your inventory is exactly the same as it was at the beginning of the year, but your income tax liability is on $25,000.00 due to the increase in your basis. How do you pay income tax on $25.000.00 profit with no $$$?
Believe me, this is a real problem in the real world.
Walter, Tom, Exactly my point. It is extortion. You have to pay $800.00 when you didn't make a penny. Now your $800.00 in the hole. The state doesn't care. All they want is their $800.00 for doing nothing and you better not be late paying it or you will be paying 10 percent interest plus fines and penalties. Everything about government is corrupt these days. The citizens and business have no rights. The only ones who have rights are illegal aliens. What ever happened to the good old days?
Glen, Mike and Tom are right. America has the highest corporate tax rate in the world. "C" corporation are taxed as a separate entity, I think all other forms every thing passes through to the owners personal tax return. First, at some point all taxes that are paid by business's must pass through to the consumer or the business will not survive. That is income taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, real estate taxes, inventory taxes, etc. so when a person screams American business is not paying it's fair share think about that. 2nd, John if forming a corporation for liability purposes shields you from liability, why am I paying another $2000+ a year for liability insurance which not only protects me but my clients if I make a mistake. Being a corporation does not protect anyone from a lawsuit, so even if the corporate shield works, you are still paying for attorneys and other expense associated with it. In Tom's example if you're making a living in your business, you will pay the Federal Government 15% in income tax, 15.30% in Medicare and Social Security taxes, plus 3 to 10% in state taxes on income that only exist on paper. That is another $8325.00 and is the bottom end of the scale. This is an over simplification, but it is also just the tip of the iceberg. I know I'm going to regret posting this, this forum should pertain to Model T's in what ever form for the most part and having fun, but some days.... .
John, You should have no regrets. you are right on and it hurts not only the citizen but the hobby as well. Any one with a little sense knows that when government cuts taxes the economy grows. We have had six years of no growth and unemployment. Our leaders have no common sense and should all be replaced
W inherited a balanced budget from Clinton, then cut the max tax rate for capital gains to 21%. Capital gain is profit from your present wealth; no work required.
Then he put two wars on the credit card (off the budget), doubled the deficit, ignored the banksters' fraud and theft, and left the economy in a shambles.
The Repub CONgress vowed to make Obama a one term wonder by hook or by crook, then they put the outsourcing king and corporate turncoat to run against him. The economy is improving despite all the shenanigans of Washington and Wall Street.
Oh, the economy is going gangbusters for the top 1%. Not so much for the rest of us. We have the widest wealth gap in the world, and getting worse.
If we continue to cut taxes for the rich, who will pay for the toys like the $1.5 Trillion F-35 fighter?
I am sorry but corporations are the ones that provide the jobs. They deserve a tax break and so does everyone else. But our present government is so greedy and trying to help every illegal alien that comes across our borders that our own veterans and homeless are completely ignored. Illegal is Illegal and deserves nothing. Anyone who supports Illegal Immigration should be deported along with the Illegals. American citizens deserve jobs and a decent income. Our government believes that every problem facing America can be fixed with a tax hike. That is just wrong. Cutting taxes has always improved the economy but our greedy, bleeding heart politicians are too stupid to see it.
It's corporations like Tyson Foods who recruit illegals. They love the cheap labor.
Under the Obama administration, deportations have increased to record levels beyond the level reached by the George W. Bush administration with a projected 400,000 deportations in 2010, 10 percent above the deportation rate of 2008 and 25 percent above 2007. Fiscal year 2011 saw 396,906 deportations, the largest number in the history of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement; of those, 216,698 had been convicted of crimes, including:
44,653 convicted of "drug-related crimes"
35,927 convicted of driving under the influence
5,848 convicted of sexual offenses
1,119 convicted of homicide
By the end of 2012, as many people had been deported during the first four years of the Obama presidency as were deported during the eight-year presidency of George W. Bush.
I have to agree with cutting taxes to stimulate the economy.
But if you cut taxes and go to war, when are you going to pay for it?
If you cut taxes and start a billion+ dollar Medicare D program, when are you going to pay for it?
Maybe it is time to levy large fines on any corporation that hires an illegal. The only problem I see in Wisconsin is no one except the illegals wants to work in the dairy industry, so what are you going to do. Someone has to shovel the manure and run the milking machines.
"The only problem I see in Wisconsin is no one except the illegals wants to work in the dairy industry, so what are you going to do. Someone has to shovel the manure and run the milking machines."
There are still people on the welfare rolls. Cut that and watch how fast the "illegal" problem solves itself once there is competition.
There are no jobs Americans won't do. There are lots of jobs Americans can't do on the wages offered. Think back to how people lived before the Ford $5 day.
Take away the illegals, and wages will go up.
"John if forming a corporation for liability purposes shields you from liability, why am I paying another $2000+ a year for liability insurance which not only protects me but my clients if I make a mistake"
You need to be outside of the corporation to be protected. If you are the corporation, which you appear to be, incorporating protects assets that you hold outside of your corporation. This works well for the rich.
The $2000 you are paying is probably protecting your corporation assets.
I am not sure where Glen is getting the $800 dollar yearly tax in California. The annual cost to file the required corporation report is $25 once you are incorporated.
Maybe he can expand on this for us.
All the president has to do is reinstate the Brasero program we use to have, then the workers can come here legally, get drivers licenses and pay taxes on their wages just like you and me. Problem solved. But no, they won't even consider that. They would rather collect all of the free social security money they are getting from illegals using stolen social security numbers. Isn't it funny how government officials cannot see that they are getting social security funds from two different locations with the same number? They don't want to see it, they just want the money. corrupt. corrupt, corrupt
Boy, did this thread get off coarse.
John. In the state of California you are required to pay $800.00 for income tax even if you have no income. Corporation filings are an additional expense and a total waste of money. The state knows you are in business and they require you to inform them if you are closing the corporation so why do they need you to file every year?---MORE MONEY. It seems to me that politicians have nothing better to do than think of new ways to part you with your money. Another scam. If you make $250,000.00 in stock profits you are taxed for the full amount in that year. However if you loose $250,000.00 in the stock market you are only allowed to write off $3000.00 per year on your taxes. None of us would live long enough to collect the full credit. As I said before, government is evil.
John, the $800 Minimum Franchise Tax is real. I've paid it.
"S corporations are subject to the minimum tax. Minimum tax is the amount you must pay by the first quarter of each accounting period whether the corporation is active, operates at a loss, or does not do business. The current minimum tax is $800."
Some governments are evil; most are incompetent and profligate. At any rate, they have provided and maintain the infrastructure we live and depend on.
Like I have said before, Had Superman just took a coffee break Lex had the right idea. Make a island out of california.
I have no idea what keeps people in that state other than hypnosis. If it is half as bad as I hear about and read about, Uhaul stock should be thru the roof.
If you owe the Federal Government $1,000 in taxes they will make a deal with you so you can pay it off over a number of months. No problem, interest sure, but they will deal with you.
If you owe the State of California $1,000 and you try to set up a deal where you pay $900 today and $100 next week they will not deal with you. It has to be all paid RIGHT NOW! They are real bastards. I told them it is no wonder some people commit suicide over taxes, the state tax board told me, "Thank you very much, I will put that in your file".
Seven out of 10 Chevrolets made are made in China,
Those Ford Transit Connects we see running around were made in Turkey.
The rats that run the country will be real happy when NOTHING is made or repaired in the U.S.
Yeah Mack. We have an earthquake every fifteen minutes too! Don't believe everything you get from the media.
Make an island out of California.....and let the rest of the nation (especially the South and Washington, D.C.) sink into the ocean.
I am absolutely fed-up with people bashing California. Especially the ones who have never been here.
Sorry for the rant.
We love our preposterous reputation. There are too many people here already.
Do you have screens on your windows? Do you need air conditioning? We don't.
We live in a good enough neighborhood where our neighbors don't steal from us, and there are richer neighborhoods near by that attract the riff raff.
Some years my house has made more money than I have. I could sell out and move with full pockets: to where? It does not cost more to live here; cars don't rust, etc.
California is a big state with every kind of terrain and climate.
Has that proposal to separate Cal. into 6 different "States" gained any traction, or was that just some hoax?
no matter what people say the Us is not small business oriented.
My wife looked at starting a business in NH catering to cooperate aircraft and took a class sponsored by the state to determine whet she needed to to meet the requirements of the STATE.
The class leader was a jerk that said if you started a business he would be your worse enemy because he wi=ould make sure you followed all the NH rules but when he was asked tom describe them he couldn't or wouldn't
My opinion was that he was a civil servant with low self esteem that was impressed with the power he was given by the state and he wanted every one to know that he was a big dog
The problem is that most people that want to do it right don't want to deal with the idiots.
That is some stingy billionaire who wants to separate the uber-wealthy Silicon Valley from the rest of the state to reduce his taxes. It may be on the ballot.
So is it dead in the water?. Have you seen any polling on it?
Dividing California into two or more states has been proposed for about 160 years. Occasionally a few people start beating the drums for it again with a bill in the legislature or a ballot proposition. It never comes close to happening.
Similar movements, if you can call them that, have occurred in Colorado and other states, with the same results. The only case of one state splitting into two is Virginia, and it took a civil war to make it happen.
I prefer living in Kansas for many reasons, but the Golden State is still worth an occasional visit. Folks who have never been there, or who have only been to L.A., sometimes have a negative impression of the state. They don't realize what a beautiful place it is in some parts. It's like New York in that regard. Lots of people think of New York City's least appealing aspects and believe that's the whole state. That's another case of not knowing that much of the state is beautiful.
You, Sir, are a man of infinite wisdom. I couldn't have said it better myself.
As for the subject of California splitting, there is a barn right off I-5 in Northern California with "State of Jefferson" in giant letters painted on the side. That barn appears to have been there for many, many years.
It is highly doubtful this will ever happen.
I thought that was Alaska,that if split into 6 states it would make TEXAS the 7 largest state.
Those of us from the Great State of Jefferson share little in common with the rest of the state, so we'd like to separate; however some believe we would not be fiscally sound. Emotionally, I'd like to separate, intellectually, I doubt it will ever happen--but it does happen in ones' mind!
I spotted this Fairlane for sale a couple days ago on Mason Ave in Chatsworth Just south of the Ronald Reagan Fwy in the San Fernando Valley. I feel very fortunate to have had the experience of growing up in Granada Hills in the 50s and 60s.
rt 66, Kingman AZ on way home to Santa Fe