I am building a 25 roadster form from a stock pile of touring parts. Everything is T except the drive train, which is a 97 Buick supper charged 3.8 V6 with a700R4 tranny and 9 in ford rearend. What I'd like to do is buy a pink slip for it instead of dealing DMV.In california if I have a pink they don't need to inspect the car.
If you do that, you may not be dealing with the DMV but rather with the Highway Patrol when they arrest you. It is fraud.
Ron, you're probably on the wrong Forum for that question.
In Missouri, there is a special license plate category for "Historic Vehicle" and another for "Street Rod." A stock T would be in the first and a T with a "97 Buick super charged 3.8 V6 with a 700R4 tranny and 9 in Ford rearend" would be in the second. I don't know about California, but I agree with Layden on licensing in the wrong category. "Legal" is usually the better option. "Fraudulent" usually isn't....
Don't bank on no inspection just because you have a pink. I had a '34 Ford that I had owned for 30 years with a valid pink in my name. I let the license expire 20 years ago and didn't non-op it as it's not required for collector cars. When I went in to license it with clean pink in hand, they told me I had to get a VIN inspection.
Don't know why other than this is California DMV. That explains it.
You're getting good advice here. Like you, I previously took a more cavalier attitude in these matters. However, after reading some of the experiences others have posted here on the forum, I'm convinced that the only way is the right way.
Ron, I'm curious, beside maybe some odd body tin and head lights what exactly does "stock pile of touring parts" entail? You can't use a stock Model T frame, it'd be too flimsy for the torque any of that new hardware you've described would be putting out. As for the headlights, not sure they'd do you too well either. And the seats, you'll probably want buckets rather than the stock bench. The hood wouldn't fit your motor and the fenders would be useless for the wheels you'd have to use. I mean you certainly wouldn't want to try running around on old 30 x 3.5 drivers tires or wood wheels for that matter either. Soooo what kind of touring parts exactly are you thinking of using? And if they're just body tin, wouldn't fiberglass serve your purpose better? Stock T's stand a wee bit tall for your hardware even with modern wheels, just asking.
Am I the only one who sees what's going on here? Ron wants to build a hot rod licensed as a stock T. If I read his question correctly, he is asking to purchase a pink from someone to pull this questionable plan off.
You are a few years to late. In the old days California DMV was only interested in sales tax and title. they assumed that we were all honest and that when you said that you had a 27 roadster it was a 27 roadster.
Then Boyd Coddington came along with a whole bunch of hot rod cars like yours and ruined the scam.
Its a scam it more than one way. You don't want to pay the sales/use tax on the actual value of your car and You don't want to do the smog required on the engine. After Coddington you are in a world of hurt. The DMV is waiting for you, The Navaho say that the Coyote is waiting and the Coyote is always hungry. in this case the Coyote is the DMV ;-(
You will probably end up registering it as a new manufacture hot rod with the tax and smog.
See, California is not all bad.
California is not all bad.
It filters all the smog coming from china by Jet stream.
I don't see how anyone can afford to live there, much less enjoy the old car hobby as most Americans can.
It's expensive living in California. It costs nearly $80.00 each year per car to keep my old cars registered. Arkansas DMV has the best deal....only pay once for each old car.
However, you need to deal with Chiggers which California does not have.
Les, That's the way TN is, you buy an antique tag for the car one time and that is good for as long as you own the car....If you sell it you keep the tag and the new owner has to buy his own.....but we also have Chigger's........
I got chiggers or something in Arkansas in the 1999 Greatrace. My legs itched for six months.
We have screenless windows open all year, with no flies or mosquitos.
I would rather live in Arkansas with chiggers than live in California with the parasites. And I have lived in both places.
In CA, even if you have Horseless Carriage plates, and the original title (pink slip), if registration hasn't been paid for 7 years or so, you will have to have the VIN inspected--and you will likely have to do battle with the DMV clerk who isn't familiar with the rules & will want you to pay fees and penalties for the years it wasn't registered. This, of course, is NOT how the rules work!!
Why do I know this???
Don't ask!! I was just the "bystander" they (City) didn't want to listen to when they decided to re-register their museum's '22 Buick.
To John Semprez - Actually in Massachusetts this would be legal. I have a friend who has a Chevy-powered '23 T-bucket in which the only factory parts are the steering wheel and the carriage lamps (and I'm not sure about the carriage lamps). He has a '23 T title and it is registered as an antique. Massachusetts has recently adopted a "modified vehicle" plate - although I have never seen one - so the status of the T-bucket may change. I have an '82 Chevy pickup that has only the cab, one parking lamp assembly and the power brake booster of the original truck. It is however, stock appearing and all body parts are for an '82 Chevy pickup. It has a conventional registration, as I do use it for what it was intended.
I dunno David. There's a certain perverse justice in a DMV vs. City Hall battle.
I forgot to add that TN only cares about the year of the car to qualify for antique plates...... And if you have a notorized bill of sale you will receive a clear title in less than a week now.... I believe it's either 20 or 25 years old.... But with antique plates you are limited to how much you can drive it..... The police mostly pull over 70 up cars if they think they are driving them back and forth to work each day...
In Massachusetts, if you have another car registered in the same name, the chances that you will be busted for driving your antique for some nefarious purpose are about nil.
The hole I see ourselves digging for our hobby is that we don't object to these "modified" vehicles.
Too often I read accident reports about an early auto being involved in fatal accidents and more often than not it is some high powered t-bucket. Yes, there are some "original" vehicles involved in fatalities, but when we stand by and do nothing when the buckets make the news and increase the accident statistics, we are allowing the statisticians to garner more data to eventually outlaw the use of the old autos on public thoroughfares.
Any car registered as a Model T with only a steering wheel as a Model T part on the car, should be illegal.
William, I could not agree more.
William, I could not agree more.
nothing's worse than seeing those slapped together rat rods with a huge motor and wood n ducttape fabrication from whatever car is popular that day.
Then see them on craigslist for $20k. Cant help to laugh and think that those were nice cars at one time
yes, there is, isn't there???
I'm just sitting back watching the 'show'
-- it could have been soooo simple! Verification, NON-Op & done! But nooooo. . . . .
I dunno David. There's a certain perverse justice in a DMV vs. City Hall battle. :-)
The only problems I see with any of this is anybody using real tin to make hot rods out of when they could easily get fiberglass to do the same thing.
But what about Speedsters? They're modified Model T's running Rajo or Fronty 16 valve overhead conversions, pressure oil and (they'd be really crazy if they aren't) juice brakes. Of course they're using the Model T engine and running gear, but some of those things are damn quick and every bit as fire breathing as that thing Ron is talking about building.
Maybe what we should be doing is trying to steer Ron into considering to build one of them (Speedster) out of his 25 chassis instead of adding all the modern hardware? Think about it Ron, you'll gain more acceptance here with the Model T crowd with a Speedster than you ever will with some cobbled up hot rod.
No the problem with this is, he wants to commit FRAUD by purchasing a legit title for a Model T and the vehicle he's building will have a modern frame, engine, front end and rear end in it. How he's building it from a stock pile of T parts is beyond me.
Calif. D. M. V. - Check the following- specially constructed vehicles. (They give out 500 per year)
William, yeah I couldn't figure that one out either. There is nothing on or in a T that will support the kind of power he's talking about building into his little monstrosity. But if he instead builds a Speedster, with real vintage hardware, costly yes, but doable, he's still going to have to register it as a modified car anyway, no matter how you slice it a speedster isn't stock!
And Ron, according to your profile, you also have a 22. Sooo why are you asking us about how to get a valid pink when you must already know from your 22? And like John Cox said, they're going to require a DMV inspection regardless what color you title is. They did with my 22 and I think they do this to make sure it really is a Model T more than to see if it has any of the new fangled safety stuff which mine doesn't because it's stock. Although I'm thinking that turn signals is a pretty good idea, you'd be surprised how many people think I'm waving at them when I use hand signals to turn.
Don't worry guys, he probably won't be back and be persuaded to come into the light. Especially with such warm greetings as "his little monstrosity" from the last post. You guys done good. Only one poster suggested this may not be the place for him!
The reality is that if you have a nice clean pink slip for a Model T that you know was junked 50 years ago, and you use it to register an identical T built from parts, even though completely original, you are still committing the same fraud. No one gets injured during this transaction, but it is still the law.