Camshaft Question

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Camshaft Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Monday, August 18, 2014 - 10:59 am:

I have the dubious distinction of just buying the second to the last Stipe 280 cam in the country. Snyder's has ONE more on the shelf if you are interested. As many of you may know Bill Stipe is retiring and has stopped making the 280 cam. They are disappearing fast.
I am going to have Chaffin's fit the front bearing for me to the cam. But why not use one of Chaffin's 280 cams?
My question for you is this:
What is the difference between the Stipe 280 and Chaffin's 280? Is it just timing or what?
Surely there must have been some motivation for Glen Chaffin to modify the 280 that he makes. So what is the difference?
Thanks for any input.
Regards,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Monday, August 18, 2014 - 11:18 am:

Chaffins cam is a regrind. Stipe's cam is brand new. I doubt the profiles are identical. Both offer good quality products - I think you would be happy with either one.

I have had a Stipe 280 in my '15 for about 10 years and 10,000 miles. It runs great.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Monday, August 18, 2014 - 11:50 am:

Hi Royce,
Are you absolutely sure that Chaffin's cam is a reground cam?
Here is a paste from Chaffin's Catalogue:
Part No. Description Price
3041BHP Camshaft, New Hi Performance, 0.280 Lift (26-27) 350.00
3041BS Camshaft, New, Improved Stock 0.250 Lift (26-27) 350.00
Our new High Performance Camshafts are Computer Designed For Optimum
Torque and Horsepower From 500 thru 2750 RPM. Valve Timing is the same for
both cams. The 0.250 Lift Cam is recommended for overhead cam applications.
No Core Is Required. For Best Performance, Set Valve Lash To 0.015 In.

Notice that they say NEW for the cams listed here. I just got off the phone with Dave at Chaffin's, and he said they are new cams made in the US.

Regards,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Monday, August 18, 2014 - 12:25 pm:

Hey Jon, here's a thread where Glen talks about the differences between their .280 cam and Stipe's http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/318200.html?1351568346. They are very similar, I think maybe the Chaffin cam gets theoretically more power on the low and high end, but in a car they probably perform about the same. The only real difference is a few degrees on where the intakes and exhausts open. The Chaffin is slightly advanced compared to the Stipe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gerald Hansen on Monday, August 18, 2014 - 01:39 pm:

I have a couple of Chaffins cams. They were new one was a very early one the other later. No problem with them they run fine, would buy again. Hell Glenn is fussy as can be has good products


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Monday, August 18, 2014 - 01:39 pm:

Hi Seth,
In discussion with Dave at Chaffin's, he said there is a very slight advantage for the Chaffin cam on paper. But performance in the car is going to be essentially the same with no noticeable difference. So I guess I will stick with my second-to-the-last Stipe 280 and be happy.
I will eventually be using it with Mark Chaffin's Rajo overhead kit.
Thanks and Regards,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Monday, August 18, 2014 - 01:52 pm:

Yeah, Glen said same thing in thread. Theoretical = on paper, in real world about the same. =)

Also, for the Rajo head, NICE! I have the Stipe .280 and really like it. That plus my pop up pistons, low head, 351W valves, and dual exhaust work really well. Really noticed a difference in performance in overdrive going from 45 up. Zip up to 60 in Warford overdrive without any trouble, she loves overdrive. I really want a Rajo head though, one of Mark's kits would be awesome. I finally got some sweet Model T wire wheels, so I'm headed in the right direction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Monday, August 18, 2014 - 02:24 pm:

Seth,
I am going to be using this stuff on the speedster that I am building (=the yellow speedster that was on ebay awhile ago). (see picture below). First I am just going to get it running with the flathead that came on it. Later on I will have Mike Bender install the Rajo Kit and a Scat stroker crank.
Did you get a set of John McLaren's wire wheels? Below is a picture of grandson Logan and the new McLaren wire wheels on the '14 runabout. The fluorescent red-orange color was just to piss everybody off...!


Regards,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Monday, August 18, 2014 - 04:47 pm:

Royce, We sell both reground cams and our own new cam. Bill Stipe makes a fine cam. We have tested them and they work very well. However, the low end torque and horsepower is slightly lower than a stock Ford Cam. Our Reground cam has virtually the same performance as the Stipe cam. Ford made an exceptionally good cam. The problem was he used about 0.026 in. clearance which reduced lift. This reduced performance. If you run a good stock Ford cam with 0.015 in clearance you will improve the high end performance 20 percent. This is the single biggest improvement you can make in the Ford cam. When we designed our new cam we wanted to improve the low end for climbing hills as well as the high end. We did this by advancing the cam 4 deg. and reducing the lobe separation angle to 110 degrees. The result was a slightly better cam than the Stipe 280. In truth you would never feel the difference in the seat of your pants. However, everyone who have used them have been happy. I have one in my own 1913 roadster and can climb many hills in high gear picking up speed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 01:29 am:

Glen, It's my understanding that your new cam (280) is not a regrind cam but is made new from 8620 bar stock. Is this correct?
Thanks,
Les


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 06:57 am:

Glen,

When I bought mine in 2003 yours were all regrinds. I did not know you started to offer new ones since then. Looks like my next one will be from Chaffins!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 07:15 am:

Jon that's gonna be a sweet speedster! And YFAF, Yellow Fords Are Faster! =) I recognize that speedster, I'm on eBay all the time checking out what T's are for sale. It's cool to talk to someone who got one of the ones that I liked.

I did not get a set of Mr. McLaren's wheels. I just couldn't swing that much $$$, plus, when I enquired about it, he just isn't making them very quickly right now. Not that I blame him one bit! I think he's just been touring a lot and enjoying being a granddad. Unless he all of a sudden started working on them at a mad pace, even if I bought and paid for them today it'd be Thanksgiving of 2015 before I ever got a set. So! I found an auction on eBay of 5 original 21" Model T wire wheels with correct hubs for $1,000 buy it now, so I got those. They need stripping and painting (working on that, should be blasted clean by this weekend) and I put small drums and new lugs on the rear hubs, and I got new inner and outer races for the fronts. Once painted I'll swap my tires over and should be set.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 08:01 am:

I've built motors with new .280 cams from Chaffins and Stipe. To be honest, they're both great cams. I truly can't tell any difference between the two in the way that the cars run, accelerate or climb hills. The Stipe cams have a little better fit and finish, but the Chafins cam cost less. I'm satisfied with both.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 09:47 am:

Seth,
Maybe I caught John McLaren in a good mood, but he made my wire wheels in 6 weeks from start to finish, so I am happy with his service. He had a neck operation on some vertebrae that were bothering him, but that was after he finished my wheels. Apparently there was a false rumor going around about him being slow because of a misunderstanding with Lang's. Someone had ordered a set of wheels through Lang's and then picked them up directly at McLaren's in Michigan. Lang's did not know this and was sitting on the order for over a year thinking that he was very slow. If someone wants wheels, I would deal with John McLaren directly. He is very easy to work with.
Regards,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 10:08 am:

Well that's cool. I don't want to speak ill of him at all, I was just repeating what I had heard, and didn't think it a big deal even if it was true. But anyway! I'm glad he made yours pretty quickly. My real problem was the cost anyway. I do think they're probably a lot lighter and stronger than the original '26/'27 wires, so I'd really love to have some one day. The real problem regardless of time being able to fork over the $$$.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 10:27 am:

John has pretty much turned the wheel business over to his son, as I understand it. The last time I dealt with them, (to buy some 22" rims), the turnaround time was fairly quick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 10:28 am:

Seth, that's a problem for most of us.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 10:45 am:

Hahahaha I don't wanna hear it Dave, you're like up to your eyeballs in T parts. I see all those postings in the classifieds. Where does all that stuff even come from? Did you buy a barn full of it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 10:58 am:

Jon, Installing a non-stock cam and an overhead valve head might be a bad idea. I was going to do the same thing, until I talked to Mark Chaffin. He said that due to the rocker arm ratio (which affects valve lift), overheads run best with stock lift cams on the street. Of course, if you are building a speedster you plan to run only at a track at almost wide open speeds, go for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 01:48 pm:

Terry,
I have talked with quite a few folks about the 250 vs. 280 cams with Mark's Rajo kit. The two most influential to me were Mark himself and Mike Bender in Oklahoma, who will do the overhead installation for me. Mike Bender has installed quite few of Mark's kits. They both agreed that the 280 would probably be their choice. But they also said that there would be very little difference in the two cams. Because of your post above and the fact that it says IN CHAFFIN'S CATALOGE that you should use the 250 cam with overheads, I called Mark again just now. He reiterated that it would be OK to use a 280 with his overhead, and so I will probably stick with the 280 that I have.
So it seems to me that the conclusion is that you can do either the 250 or the 280 without much difference. Doing the numbers on the two cams kind of reinforces this. There is only 30 thousandths difference in the lift between the two cams, only 0.03 inches. Probably not enough to make much of a difference.
Having said this, I would not want to increase lift any more than that.
Regards,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 01:57 pm:

Perhaps it depends on the OHV head that is being used.(?) Not sure, but it seems logical that the different makes/models of OHV heads may well have varying rocker arm ratios. If this is true, a stock cam may work best with one head, and a 250 or 280 may work best with another. Maybe Mike, Mark, or Glen will chime in. I'm curious as well, with an original (non-milled) Rajo Model 30 and a stock cam.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 02:06 pm:

I've been very happy using a Stipe 280 with my Fronty. The Fronty is the "T" version and the engine has an A crank and high compression pistons. Standard Fronty exhaust opening to a 2" pipe and a Zenith HP5A carb. Good torque and enough RPM and power to keep me happy. A 250 would probably worked just fine too but the slightly higher lift sounded like a good idea to me as I was building the motor. No regrets


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 04:30 pm:

Now, I'm curious. Why would Mark advise me to use a stock 250 lift cam and tell you that he hasn't problem with you using a 280 lift cam? Perhaps it was because I was inquiring about a Rajo 4 valve head and your maybe using one of his 8 valve heads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 04:45 pm:

I was advised a few experts also to use the 250 Stipe at the time. I've been very happy with the performance but still wonder about the 280. My 250 can really pul the hills and I often run at top end on the freeway. Not sure which would be the best but still happy though. Guess bigger is not always better?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 11:29 pm:

Either cam will work with the Rajo. The only reason we recommend the 250 lift cam is that the Rajo rockers already have a 1.5 to 1 rocker ratio that gives you 50 percent more lift. Who needs any more?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 07:53 pm:

We produced our first 280 lift cams in 2005. In 2011 we improved performance by advancing our cams 4 degrees. We believe our cam has been optomized for street use. You cannot improve the low end without hurting the high end. And you cannot improve the high end without hurting the low end. By advancing our cam 4 degrees and changing lobe centers to 110 degrees instead of 115.5 degrees we have produced a cam that has both a very good low end and an excellent high end performance. It is not a racing cam even though we have had customers who said that they could do 60MPH and climb most hills in high gear. We have sold many of these cams and never had a complaint.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 - 04:04 pm:

For every ones to know I just talked to Bill Stipe and he has 125, 280's in the process right now, so he is still in business of making T cams.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 - 04:49 pm:

Thank you, Joe, for that information! When I called Bill about a cam, he was on vacation, and the phone girl told me she was not sure if he was going to make any more, so that's what had me worried.
Anyway, that's good news.
Regards,
Jon


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration