In the past I saw several posts discussing Hayes wire wheels and I need some info from you guys that have these wheels.
I have been able to locate a set of Hayes de-mountable wheels but only the hubs and felloes with no spokes. They will be mounted on a Canadian car so 30 x 3,5” all round with small brake drums. They are still “in transit” and I want to have spokes made up, so in the mean time I thought while waiting for them I can get some info on spoke lengths. What I need is the length of the spoke from the 90° bend up to the “dimple” in the felloe this will be the end of the tread.(see attached drawing).There will be 2 different lengths of spokes per wheel the “front” spoke and the “back” spoke are different and also the front wheels are different to the back wheels.
So I need:
a. Front wheel “front” spoke length
b. Front wheel “back” spoke length
c. Back wheel “front” spoke length
d. Back wheel “back” spoke length
e. Total number of spokes per wheel
Many thanks and kind regards
Ockert, welcome to the ownership of Hayes wire wheels!
I have the following specifications taken from original parts.
First, the bend at the end of the spoke is not a right angle. Given the limitations of a very short end after the bend, I checked the angle as best I could and it works out at 130 degrees.
The following measurements are taken from the mid point on the inside of the bend.
*front and rear outers........10"
*front inner.................. 8.25"
Originally the spokes were double butted. This means they were thicker at each end and drawn thinner between the ends. The ends measure .170" and the thinner body of the spoke is .162" The thicker ends are 1.5" long. I have not been able to source these butted spokes in Australia and use spokes of uniform gauge.
Original nipples are .9" long. There are shorter nipples available.
There are 16 outer spokes on each wheel and 32 inner spokes for a total of 48 per wheel.
Let me know if you need more info. How are the keyways in the rear hubs? Many Hayes wheels suffer here. I have a repair proceedure for this which I can let you know of. It needs to be done before the wheel is re-spoked.
I'm a newbie so can't answer technical questions but I can tell you that the Haynes wheels on my 1925 "Dalgety" (ie Australian) Tourer have 16 spokes on the outside and 32 shorter spokes on the inside of each wheel. I assumed that the front wheels and the back wheels were the same???
I do have a broken spoke on one of my back wheels so if it turns out that your wheels are the same as mine I could be interested in buying a spoke off you, depending on the postage costs from Switzerland to Australia. I'll contact you privately.
Mrtk, I can help you out with a spoke or two. I have a few spares put aside for my set that I am going to rebuild for my Duncan and Fraser roadster. Which one do you need?
Your external brake set up may or may not complicate things. I would be interested to know how the drums have been fitted. As the small drum usually found on these wheels is integral with the lacing holes for the inner spokes, they cannot simply be swapped over like bolt on standard T large and small drums.
By the way, that rear wheel you show has a slotted lug next to the valve stem. This is an indication that the rim is actually a Chev rim. When you have to take it off for some reason, check to see if a valve hole closer to the other side of the lug has been welded up. That will be the original valve stem hole. This is not a problem. Just a point of interest. When the valve stem is closer to the lug, the lug has to be slotted to allow the valve stem to be lowered through the felloe and the lug to pass over the rim bolt. The Chev rims are a little wider than T rims too
Allan from down under.
Mark, I forgot to mention that replacing an inner spoke on a rear wheel requires pulling the wheel.
You will need a puller which threads into the hub where the hubcap screws in.
Once the wheel is off, you will find the spoke cannot be threaded in without bending it to fit. Depending on which one, it can involve making it a U shape over its length and then straightening it again once you have it threaded. Sounds gruesome, but it works.
Allan from down under.
It's an inner spoke on the rear left (passenger side). "Pulling" the wheel sounds fairly daunting and as for bending and then straightening the spoke...
If you were closer I'd come and visit but 1,600 km is a bit far to dive in the Model T.
As I said, I'm a newbie but I'm learning lots. In the last month or so Since owning the car I've managed to locate and fix a loose electrical connection, install a temporary horn button while I'm waiting for a real one, adjust the low gear band, lean how to crank start and how to drive. Not bad for someone who's mechanically declined!
That was exactly what I was looking for. The keyways will need some work so your procedure of how to fix it, would be great!
From your post I gather you had some spokes made in Australia, do you have any contact info of spoke suppliers/manufacturers you could send me? I was thinking of using somebody in the UK as I have to go there for business in a few weeks and wanted to save on postage but it will be good to compare prices.
Another question, do you know where I could source hubcaps? Or are there any repos available somewhere?
I am originally from South Africa and will return there end of this year.I have been working in Switzerland for the past 4 years, but it is time to go home! We have quite a strong Model T following there, and as you guys in Australia we have to fix up everything as spares is few and far between!
For the keyway fix you need to find some Ford hubs with good keyways. Nothing else matters with the donor hubs.
I remove the brake drums from the Hayes hubs first. The hub needs to be bored out to take a new centre from the donor T hub. The hole through the Hayes hub needs to be stepped, smaller on the outside and larger on the inside. I have not noted the sizes, but just bore the holes to provide plenty of the T hub to be left without making the Hayes hub too thin.
Then the T hub is machined down, with the appropriate steps, to be pressed into the Hayes hub. I make this a .0015" interference fit. Once pressed into the hub, I fit 1/4" diameter x 1" long internal hex drive grub screws on the joint between the two pieces, two on the inside and one on the outside.
My spoke supplier is in Western Australia. He is Brian Morgan at Spoke Wheel Services, 1/5 Fonts Place, Embleton WA 6062. Australia. I only have a phone/fax number, 61 8 9377 0175. If you use him as your supplier, I could send him my original spokes for patterns.
Excellent reproduction hubcaps are available in Australia from Vintage and Classic reproductions. These are lost wax castings and are really accurate in detail.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Ockert, Where are you now? There is a major wire wheel business in Dayton Ohio, Dayton Wire wheels from memory.they appear to be able to supply any size wire wheel spokes.
Thanks Allan for your help and info it is much appreciated! I will let you know on what I decide regarding where I have the spokes made.
Peter I live in Switzerland and will be moving back to South Africa in December. I will keep them in mind thanks.
Many thanks and kind regards
The antique car & motorcycle crowd around there like this place and have used them quite a bit. That's where I'm going for my 30 x 3-1/2 spokes.
Wichita, KS USA