OT - I may have had a better day in "Okieland" than Steve yesterday :-)

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: OT - I may have had a better day in "Okieland" than Steve yesterday :-)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 12:55 pm:

Just back from Tulsa with a load of good stuff. Mike Bender bored our Model K jugs, reamed valve guides and ground seats. I'm always amazed at the good stuff he's working on when I go there.......

old and new valve:


we'll have 18 less pounds of piston weight:


bored cylinders:


valve chambers:


And a few other things Mike was working on:





I told Mike he's now a certified Model K engine builder too. He had to do extra work building a plate to hold the jugs during boring, setting up to do the valves etc. He came in within the budget we set (although he had to do additional work) and finished well ahead of schedule.

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 01:29 pm:

In the last picture, what's that tube across the cap? How about the pipe on the side of the pan?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 01:37 pm:

Almost looks like it's set-up for pressurized oil... ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 01:40 pm:

Steve
Maybe Mike will see this and explain everything. He builds Model T performance engines, and I think that is part of a pressurized system. I've been to his shop twice and each time he had several interesting projects going....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 02:15 pm:

Pressurized oiling.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 02:18 pm:

I have a nutty question - what is that tapped hole for in the side of the cylinder bore? I assume that the rings never get near it?

bore


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 02:20 pm:

Oil pressure to the mains for sure guys as the pictures show "plumbing" attached to all three main bearing caps.

My question concerns the pipe "nipple" attached (welded?) to the oil pan, adjacent to #1 rod journal. For outside accessory oil line?

Looks to me like a combination oil pressure/splash system, huh? Man,....that sure a "stout" looking crankshaft! Gonna' be quite an engine for sure!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 02:29 pm:

Oops! Sorry Steve,.....we were both typing as almost the same time!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 03:11 pm:

Mark,

The second year of production Ford added outside oil lines for each cylinder (Model K). The rings were "pinned" (so they wouldn't rotate) and the bottom ring does cross the hole.

Oil is controlled with a pulley driven McCord oiler and each cylinder has separate flow control.

Oiler:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 03:18 pm:

Whoa, gnarly! Thanks Rob.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 05:28 pm:

Rob,

Did you and Mike check with Royce to see if your doing it correctly? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 05:38 pm:

... funny ... an E-Oiler is what's needed there !

Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 05:46 pm:

That's interesting Rob, the ring pinned and the ring gap being on a thrust side of the piston, something that would be considered incorrect by todays standards.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 06:37 pm:

Steve , Harold

The nipple in the side of the pan is for the return oil from a super charger. Not kidding this engine is super charged. Full pressure no splash.

Better view of oil line. Running a VW oil pump off the cam.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 09:43 am:

Rob, is that your spare K engine?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 10:03 am:

No splash? That's how the VW lubes the cylinders.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen on Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 10:46 am:

Frank,

Each of the four rings are pinned, with the top facing front (or back, I didn't mark the pistons since they are not going back in). Then each ring is pinned 90 degrees from the others, so only the number two and three ring are facing either sidewall. Originally there was no oil ring, just four compression rings. I've read that the oil lines were added to aid cylinder cooling as much as for lubrication, although I have no idea if that's correct.


By 1908, the six cylinder Rolls Royce added outside cylinder lines on the Silver Ghost. I've not been able to find pics to determine if they entered the cylinder in a similar location, or served a similar purpose.

In the June 1907 24 Hour Race won by Ford (Model K) the cars are running "stripped" and part of the race description says the "drivers assistant" would reach forward and feel the cylinders, and if warm turn up the oiler (while averaging over 47 mph on a one mile oval dirt track).

Ford publication "How Ford Six Won The Greatest 24 Hour Endurance Run" a description of turning up the oiler:



Full transcript and race information: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kl0eg4e9o3sirqg/How%20the%20Ford%20%22Six%22%20Won%20The%20Greatest%2024%20Hour%20Race%20copy.pdf

Eric,

Yes, it's our "spare" engine. We'll swap jugs on our car at some point (probably after Dearborn/Lansing/OCF and the Glidden Tour) with the "new" jugs. Then the jugs on the car go back to Mike Bender to have the same work done.


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