This is mostly for other Arkies. I went to the DMV today to get the title for the new (to me) 1926 touring. In Arkansas we need to have a title and bill of sale for regular tags and title "or" for antique tags we can do a bill of sale only. For bill of sale only, antique tags, you need to take the bill of sale, proof of insurance, tax assessment, and three receipts for parts or work done to restore the car.(it is not required to run)(but do not tell them that it does not run)Rule #1 is, give no more information than asked for. The receipts should show parts that are specific to your car. (oil changes, cleaning supplies, ect. are no good) With these in hand I went to the DMV. I told the woman working there (new woman) I needed tags. She wanted a Title, I told her I had a bill of sale and receipts, she said I had to have a title. That's when I told her, No I do not need a title, just the stuff I brought her. The other two women who work there know me and said to me, "Try to teach her as well as you taught us". So with the other two workers (who were busy) watching (and smiling) I spent the next 15 minutes teaching the "new girl" her job. There is also an affidavit of "non use" and an affidavit for antique tags that needs filled out. Its there job to know that, but the "new girl" did not know that either. (the affidavits are supplied by the DMV and not something you supply) The main reason for this posting is that it was brought up awhile back, in another post, about having a problem with bill of sale titles in Arkansas. The rules are still the same. Its just sometimes the workers do not know what to do, or want to take the "easy" way out. The "new girl" was a good worker and very interested in "learning her job better" and everyone thought it funny I was having to teach her. But not all of the workers are interested in anything but a pay check. The main thing is to understand what is needed before you go there. So after 15 minutes and 19.95 payment for tags and title, I have a new registration, a brand new antique tag, and in about 2 weeks (or less) Ill have a new Arkansas title, mailed to me, in my name for a 1926 Model T Ford touring .....
OK then -- It looks like I'll need to travel to Clinton the next time I need a title for a non-titled car.
But then the DMV person will probably tell me I need to title it in the county where I live.
I tried to get a title for my 1908 original Reo gentleman's roadster last week. Had a bill of sale from the seller, with all numbers and even a price, his address, and signature. I also took a HCCA roster showing the sellers as the owner of the Reo, his address and town in Nebraska.
We have in Washington a bonded title, this gives you the ability to license and drive the car but not sell it for 2 years.
All was well until the clerk at the local license agency told me I needed a State Patrol inspection. So I asked her to show me the statute that spelled out the required inspection. she looked on line for nearly 20 minutes and never could provide me the statute or the RCW number, but still would not issue the title.
So I called the gestapo and guess what my earliest appointment was the 25th of October. All appointments must be made in advance and by phone you can't just "drop" in.
The guy said hey this will be really cool I've never seen a car that old and this clown is going t certify my 1908 Reo for a license and title.
Mike, I may be spoiled here in Clinton. I have know all the "girls" who have ever worked there. I used to do about one car a month there when I was very active at the hobby. (We were allowed to do 12 cars a year without a dealers license). I think its 10 cars a year now. This is my second car this year. The main thing is to know what the law is and "make" them do it. We are dealing with the government, so there is no guarantee on any of this. and I always suggest to get the title as soon as you can get the papers and receipts, do not wait, because the laws change all the time ... they just added the 3 receipt rules to us about a year ago. Who knows what they will do next. I forgot to mention above that you are required to have another licensed vehicle as your primary vehicle, before you can get antique tags. It must be the "second" car. When you were talking about the troubles you had, it scared me. I thought they had changed the rules (how dare they do that,without asking me) but so far its the same ... So I hurried up and got all my stuff together and went in today.... Just hope this post, gets a few tail draggers to get their paper work done ...
Brass car guy, Every state is different, some can be a nightmare. But right now, the way I explained above works in Arkansas. Unless you get a worker with PMS or a man who's wife ran off with the gardener, or something like that... "Then, may the games begin".
Donnie -- What I had to do (among many other steps) a year or so ago was to get a $7,500 bond to secure a "bonded title." The title is bonded for 3 years, then the bond is released if there are no other claims on the vehicle. I have titled several cars without titles here over the years, and all that was required was a Bill of Sale. Not any more.
I'm trying to get a title in Oregon and I have zero paperwork, zero history except word of mouth and the car is a '23 so no chassis number. I think the gal at the counter almost had her head explode because there wasn't paperwork. I sent off what I could and paid money so we will see what happens.
I was on another forum and some people said that vehicles that are older (30+ years) don't have a title. This guy was from Connecticut and that seemed really odd to me.
Just an update for the Arkies. I received my new title today. It took about 11 days. It appears that Little Rock (where all the local offices send the applications for antique tags) is still doing the antique vehicle titles with bill of sale only, and 3 receipts for parts. I think it is the "luck of the draw" on who you get at the office. If they are having a bad day, then you probably are going to have one too. I would just go as prepared as possible and "never" ask for anything except antique vehicle tags. good luck and have a nice day
Since the statute of limitations has undoubtedly expired in this case, the story can be told. In the mid-1960s, I was stationed at Little Rock AFB and a friend and I decided to buy a London taxicab. We bought it through an auto broker that we found in Car and Driver, and had it shipped to Florida. Although we were financially equal in the transaction, we decided for simplicity's sake to put the ownership in his name. We had a maritime bill of lading consigning the car to him. Apparently, in international commercial law, a maritime BoL constituted proof of ownership the same way a title does, but try to explain that to the DMV. We opted for the pragmatic solution. With the car, we got the "log book," which states in upper-case letters across the top, "REGISTRATION ONLY - DOES NOT CONSTITUTE PROOF OF OWNERSHIP." The DMV clerk said that if my friend's name was in that, there wouldn't be a problem. Okay, every time the registration had changed hands, there was a handwritten change and a round rubber stamp that read, "Middlesex General Court." I went to a rubber stamp company, had them duplicate the Middlesex stamp and for good measure had them make one in block capital letters that read "FOR EXPORT." We took the log book to the officers' club one evening, had two different nurses (feminine handwriting) add the name of the broker we had bought it from and then my friend's name, stamped both with the round stamp and the second one with the "FOR EXPORT" stamp, went back to the DMV and had an Arkansas title a few weeks later. I don't think we ever made an untruthful statement - we just handed over the papers.
Don't know about other states, but when I bought a 27TT in Virginia it came with a 1929 VA. title (trade in).
Went to a DMV office where they refused to honor the original 1929 title because the farmer signed the title in 1950, just before he passed. Trouble was, I also needed a certified copy of his death certificate from wherever he was when he died. His youngest son, born around 1917, was executor of the estate but I did not receive a copy of the court document from wherever proving he was legally the executor.
Soo, I have a "bill of sale", a signed 1929 title and an unlicensed 1927 truck capable of 25 mph downhill with a tailwind! I put an unrestored set of 1927 PA plates from Hershey on the old girl and nobody has ever questioned their validity when I unload from the trailer.
And you know something? At age 75 I really don't give a damn about spending the rest of my years arguing with those morons in Richmond! My 22 and 25 Ts are registered here in PA with no problems. I just might "loose" the original title and go with a new one from PA. Parts receipts? Absolutely no problem! How many do I need from Langs, Snyders, Texas Ts, etc.
Why do our "servants" make life so miserable that they drive honest citizens into the gray areas just to get some enjoyment from life?
Quite so, Mahlon...
I bet that the WSP inspector will put a WA state vehicle VIN tag on your 1908 REO. Some folks that are really into an original car would not be happy with the tag attached to their car.
The bond that some states are requiring now makes sense but a the bill of sale requirement is a real joke. Any fool can "give" there car to a friend and that friend can sell the car back to you with a bill of sale and states are okay with that. There is no chain of ownership trail requirements for bills of sale.
I know a guy that bought a '70 Ford truck from a large farm corporation several years ago. He recieved the title, NOTORIZED, with no signature from the seller. He just scribbled a mostly unlegible signature with just a few letters that matched the corporation. It went through with no problem. Dave
A friend of mine bought an old high wheeler a long while back, with no title...here's his adventure in Virginia getting a title...you can almost sense his aggravation through the jagged verse:
Here's my story. Thirty years ago I bought an antique truck at an estate sale. Second owner. It came without a title. In fact the vehicle was so old that it predated when my state began issuing titles. Half hearted attempts at obtaining a title were met with only scorn at the DMV. So for these many years it has seen use only sparingly. And the fact that it has a top speed of 18 MPH limited it to an annual Christmas tree run and a few very local car shows.
Well I'm old enough now to be finishing things I started as far back as high school. Knowing that a clear title would be a factor when my heirs consider ebay, I began the title deathmarch.
I approached the DMV through a "mom and pop" agency thinking they would be sympathetic. A couple mornings off work resulted in nothing but futility. "You'll have to go Full Service" they said. A Mega DMV or I could take a hike to my state capital "Headquarters". Yeah right.
I had, for another of my fleet, resorted to an out of state title company. Worked very well and not too expensive. Returning to them for this one, I was rebuked. They wouldn't deal with my state.
However, they would refer me to another titling company in a different far away state. I started the process.
Expensive by about three times. Got to do it. Paper work came, things to be notarized. More paperwork came for verification of the VIN number either by an officer of the law or a used car salesman. (?!)
Got that done and then came a notice that I would have to send more money to cover the sales tax on the value I claimed. I did. We're in this over a thousand dollars now to sign over my vehicle to some holding company.
Then this week a document arrived . The holding company was selling me my truck. Their title had been issued in yet another far away state. Off to yet another local DMV where I was told I would get quick and curteous service. I did up until the clerk said "Oh no, I can't do this. You'll have to go Full Service". HAL, the DMV computer deemed my vehicle's four digit serial number "untitleable".
I went to another DMV, a Full Service type. Line out the door, I finally got a number and waited my turn. And waited my turn.... finally called, I presented the documents to the clerk and she didn't understand why the problem. Until she tried it. HAL again. Repeated tries to "Headquarters" by telephone and finally assisted, the clerk eventually told me "They'll have to resolve this . Take a seat because I don't know how long it will take."
An hour and a half later she called me to the counter. They were adding a suffix to the serial number. Nothing that made any sense, just a letter to screw up anybody else who tries to match the title with the serial number plate. Don't care. For another hundred and fifty dollars I have the truck titled in my name and in my state.
I realize there are those who maintain that if it doesn't have a title, they won't buy . That's ok if you can pass it up. But if it's a family heirloom, or that two lever T or undiscovered Thomas Flyer , sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.