Where to mount a Stewart Spedometer

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Where to mount a Stewart Spedometer
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 12:58 pm:

I recently acquired a Stewart Speedometer, and with a little cleaning, found it to be in very good condition.

1. Can anyone confirm what model number it is ?
Barely visible in one picture are the letters "K 11"stamped just above where it says "patented".

2. I would like to mount it (even though I don't have the wheel gears and cable for it yet). Where were these normally mounted?

Thanks in advance!




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 02:55 pm:

You don't need a speedometer for a Model T; what you need is a calendar. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 03:10 pm:

Might I suggest a Garmin Nuvi-40 GPS speedometer? It sticks to the dash with a suction cup, costs less than $100, is completely reversible (just take it off), more accurate, less trouble to hook up, and just makes better sense.
One of Mark Twain's favorite comments about common sense:
"Sometimes I think common sense isn't all that common!"
Regards,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 03:21 pm:

Bud,

Contact Russ Furstnow. He knows his speedometers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 04:56 pm:

Your Stewart speedometer is a Model 102 and the 'K' indicates it was a 1918 model. This model Stewart was used from 1915 to 1918 during the period when speedometers were optional equipment. It was replaced in 1919 with the model 160 which was used through 1925, although mounting brackets were available to mount the 160 on 26-27 dashes. The most popular choice for speedometers in 26 and 27, appear to have been the model 490 due to its smaller diameter. I have seen a 26-27 dash in which a model 102 was previously mounted because a slot had been cut in the dash panel to the right of the speedometer case hole for the reset wheel to stick through. You didn't say what year or size tires your T has, but for the speedometer to read anyway near correctly, you'll need the correct wheel, swivel, and swivel gear to get the correct ratio. Most of this information came from the MTFCA encyclopedia. The "Rip Van Winkle" touring that has been featured in 5the Vintage Ford and Bruce's books, had a model 102.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 06:09 pm:

Terry

Thanks for the identification of the speedometer.

I should have mentioned that it will be installed in my 1915 touring. I already have an electronic speedometer and occasionally use a GPS. But I would like to have the the period correct speedometer.

Can anyone tell me the mounting location for a 15 touring ... or maybe a picture ???

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 06:20 pm:

The bevel gear on the bottom of your speedometer indicates that there was originally an elbow attached and the speedometer was mounted on an instrument panel below the windshield, not on the firewall. (Stewart made both wood and metal aftermarket Model T Ford instrument panels designed for their speedometers.)

Also, bracket for mounting a Stewart speedometer behind the instrument panel is substantially different from the bracket used to mount the speedometer on the surface of the firewall.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 06:54 pm:

Bud,

Terry did a great job identifying your speedometer. Here is a bit more info:

The 1915 didn't come with a factory speedometer but the correct one is called a Ford Special setup. There are several manufacturers of Ford Specials: Stewart, John Mansfield, Standard and a couple others. They use a different drive cable than the later year speedometers and also a direct drive "swivel" and smaller gear on the wheel. The speedometer has a stamped sheet metal plate screwed to the back with 3 ears for screws to attach it to the firewall. It is usually mounted to the right of the Carburetor adjusting knob.

The 102 was usually mounted in a Stewart accessory wood dash board from the back with a cup type mount on the rear and a flat plate on the front with a slot for the adjusting wheel. (sort of a "sandwich" mount through the board).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 06:57 pm:

Also the model 102 you have needs to have a 90 degree elbow to mesh with the gear on the bottom drive. The other end of the elbow has a slotted drive coupling to mate with the Stewart type chain drive cable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester Leighton on Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 07:18 pm:

I have the elbow for your speedometer. There were two variants on the 100/102 speedometer. Yours has the bevel gear on the bottom, mine has the slotted drive coupling with threads for the cable ferrule on the bottom. The elbow that works with yours has a closer to 90 degree bend than the one that works with mine.I have been looking for one like yours to use because of the tighter elbow which would give a little more foot room on the passenger side. When I put the speedo set up on my 26, it cost a little over 500 and I was given the speedometer by my dad. I know the model 102 isn't correct for 26 but like I said, I already had the speedo. Unless you really want to use your speedo, I think I would go the GPS route. They are more accurate and with the way the drum swings on mine, bound to be easier to read while driving.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leon Parker on Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 07:57 pm:

1915 firewall pictures of mounting area for spedo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Stewart -Calif. on Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 09:59 pm:

Hi Bud
Here is a picture of my 1914 T Dash with my 1914 Stewart speedometer mounted in place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Lovejoy, So Cal on Friday, August 22, 2014 - 12:15 am:

Hi Bud, I am going to try the same thing with my TT. I got one off e bay quite cheap, it seems to be in very good shape. I found this guy on the net - lot's of good info, I hope he can be of help to us both. The site has graphs, I believe to assist in finding the right drive gears ? Good luck, keep us posted. http://antiquespeedometer.com/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Friday, August 22, 2014 - 07:43 am:

Dennis Henrichs:
Speedometers were supplied as factory equipment until they were discontinued in August 1915. Therefore all 1915 model year cars were so equipped.
Click here:
http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1915.htm

Here is a factory photo from the Highland Park assembly plant showing 1915 dashes equipped with speedometers:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leon Parker on Friday, August 22, 2014 - 07:48 am:

My Feb of 1915 touring fire wall, original.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Friday, August 22, 2014 - 08:07 am:

Royce,

Thanks for the clarification. I knew the speedo was discontinued during 1915. Just forgot that it coincided with the end of the model year. Memory fails the older I get. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Friday, August 22, 2014 - 08:41 am:

Wow!

Lots of good info on mounting! I appreciate the response and especially the pictures.

Great website Tom!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Friday, August 22, 2014 - 10:42 am:

Royce, I don't know where you come up with these pictures, but that assembly line photo is great. Haven't seen that one. Thanks for posting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Friday, August 22, 2014 - 01:49 pm:

Same as this one but blurry. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, August 23, 2014 - 10:19 am:

Mine started out as this low res stereopticon photo:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, August 23, 2014 - 11:12 am:

I wonder what those fixtures are on top of the firewalls?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Saturday, August 23, 2014 - 11:47 am:

A jig to hold the firewall in place while it was being assembled ?

Royce - what software did you use to enhance the resolution on the original picture? Never saw one that worked that well!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, August 23, 2014 - 12:03 pm:

Bud,

I use the Microsoft Office Picture software that comes with every PC. It is simple and easy to use for computer illiterates like me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Saturday, August 23, 2014 - 12:34 pm:

Leon Parker's picture of his fire wall is the direct answer to your question #2 for the '15-'16 Ford. On my '16, the drive cable drops straight down from the speedo head (Stewart 102 w/no 90 degree elbow) through a "notch" in the upper floorboard. Don Lang helped me with the correct front wheel drive and cable setup, so you may want to contact him.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester Leighton on Sunday, August 24, 2014 - 01:07 pm:

I know it isn't correct for a 26 but Dad gave me the model 102 speedometer when I first got my T. I used a Stuart model 1913 swivel and a 56 tooth wheel gear. I studied the "Speedometers" book by Russ Furstnow sold by the club. I used the modern replacement kit in an original housing for the cable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Sunday, August 24, 2014 - 03:56 pm:

Larry-
It looks to me like the top piece looks like a "carrier" or some sort. I think there is an upper rail and a lower rail that the firewalls slide along. The square top ensured that it would not twist and get bound up as it was moved along.

Notice the brass plated steel quadrant and the protective covering around the steering column. I imagine the protective covering was removed after the body was put on. I'll have to get out my Shops book and see what it says...

: ^ )

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Sunday, August 24, 2014 - 05:56 pm:

Hi Bud,
Not to confuse anyone, but by 1918, Stewart identified your speedometer as the Model 150 for the Ford Car. There was a special pressed steel bracket that hung from the cowl or a wood dashboard that was supported by the steering column that mounted your speedometer. The input angle drive actually came in an 80 degree or 45 degree configuration, and the gear on the input shaft was manufactured to fit ONLY one of the angles. If your angle drive is missing, you will need to check out both angle drives to determine which will work on your speedometer.

On another note, the right engine pan found on the 1915 Ford was punched with a 1" round hole to allow the Ford Special cable to reach the drive unit. Prior to 1915, the hole for the cable was located in the right apron, near the firewall, but with the introduction of the cowl in 1915, the hole was moved to the engine pan. The hole for the carburetor drain can be used to route the cable, but a 1" hole behind the carburetor drain, along with the speedometer rubber grommet, is correct for 1915 cars.

I hope this helps
Russ Furstnow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Sunday, August 24, 2014 - 08:06 pm:

Russ

Thanks for the good info. I do have the bracket and the right angle drive, but they weren't in the pictures.

Hopefully I can find the remaining 4 or5 pieces I need at a swap meet!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Monday, August 25, 2014 - 10:44 am:

Two other observations. It appears that they were still using an aluminum timer in that photo. Next, look at the brass plated quadrants closely. I think I see notches on the back side. I have a NOS one of those, that has never been mounted.


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