As I'm going through our '27 Coupe making everything work properly, I'm now faced with a challenge. How do it get the car to not shudder when applying the brakes?
I tightened the band to get better braking & now it stops much better but just before the car comes to a complete stop, I get a gunk, gunk, gunk sound and the whole car shakes.
For background, the car has a Ruxstell & a Muncie (so aux brakes are in its future) but it currently has only the trans brake and hand brake available. There is a second brake equalizer behind the Muncie with cables running between the two. The brake rods run to the rear off the second equalizer. It apparently had (at one time) a system to activate the emergency brakes using the brake pedal but much of the bell crank & pedal extension hardware is missing from that modification.
So, back to the problem... What is making the shudder? Band too loose still? Worn u-Joint on the Muncie? Some other ideas?
Also, has anyone ever seen the brake system that I'm describing with two cables & two stock equalizers to run large drum 1927 brakes from the pedal?
Oops, misspelled Ruckstell
Bill - I'm betting that someone will suggest adding a quart of automatic transmission fluid with each oil change (but I won't!)
Seriously Bill, you didn't mention what type material your bands are. I know that wood bands have a reputation of "chatter", however, I have a theory about that. I have wood bands on two of my four "T's, and they don't chatter at all! I love 'em! My theory is that wood bands will chatter if they are abused, and therefore, burned. Burned as in "charred"! Mine are not burned or charred at all, and I think that is why they operate so smoothly. But I NEVER make a brake application for more that two or three seconds continuously. I try to use the brakes as sparingly as possible, but in the case of a harder than normal stop, the "Rockies" on my depot hack do most of the work, and on my '23 Touring, I have excellent large drum brakes that I can alternate between the two or three second "jabs" with the brake pedal.
Not sure how any of my "pontifications" here would be of any help to you, but I do think the type of band material your '27 coupe has might just be a factor,.......harold
.....dang! Meant to say that I think the type of band material and THE CONDITION IT'S IN might be a factor.
Cotton lining. 30+ years old with very little use since restoration. I already put in the auto trans fluid. Didn't change anything. The shudder is just at the last stage of braking before the full stop. Could be something loose? That's why I mention the Muncie as a possible culprit?
I do know that Rockies are my best option & setting them up to do most of the work should address this... but it still shouldn't shudder.
Yeah, my '23 Roadster has cotton lining and as much as I like the wood bands, the transmission brake in that '23 is "soft as velvet" and "smooth as silk"!
This probably won't help much Bill, but I know that you haven't had to coupe too long, and sometimes you can actually get used to something like that, and over a period of time, maybe more driving experience with that car will help you develop a braking "technique" that will preclude most or maybe all of the chatter. Maybe just let it go for awhile, or at least until you need new bands and see how it goes,....??? Just a thought,.....harold
Thank you Harold! Yes, I'm just trying to "dial in" the car and make it a good runner like our '15 Touring. I also need to play with the Vaporizer and see if I can get some acceleration out of that carb. Not a Hot Rod, that's for sure.
Oh, and if anyone was wondering about the new fan hub... it's working fine and the car runs hotter but doesn't boil.
Bill, weren't you riding with your Dad when he got the paddy wagon in neutral?
I would not let that thing out of the garage without wheel brakes.
The grabbing is probably the band lining. Put a piece of plexi in place of the tranny cover, and watch closely. Take out the oil screen for the test.
Bill, I don't know what causes this problem, but I have had the same experience at different times. i tend to drive around the problem, if it is indeed a problem. As I slow, I anticipate the shudder and back off on the pedal pressure so the stop is more slowly achieved. The need for a rapid stop is still catered for but the shudder cannot be avoided then.
Either way, I don't consider it a problem worth finding a cure for.
Just my experience,
Allan from down under.
Do practice using the hand brake in an emergency - should something happen in the driveline, then the wheel brakes on a 26/27 are a good insurance - if you're trained and ready to use them.
Bill mine did that until I adjusted the "neutral" the low band was trying to engage and that was causing the shudder.
The symptom of brakes shuddering can be caused by bad thrust washers in the rear axle. You are feeling the ring gear popping over the pinion gear due to excessive clearance. Scary.
Or maybe the rear end was just assembled wrong with new parts causing the same net effect.
I experienced band shudder after changing oil using oil with the SN designation.
After switching to motorcycle oil with SF designation, shudder no more. Contains no friction modifiers, best for engine/trans lubrication.... just like our Model T's .
I wonder if the clearance on the brake drum busing isn't a bit too much. I have that problem on one of my cars but everything in the rear is tight and was rebuilt recently. The problem existed before the rear end was rebuilt and continued to occur after it was done. I threw a set of AC brakes on the car to do most of the stopping and that solved the problem.
Slightly out-of round brake drum? Both modern drum and disc brakes will do this if a bit out of true. It actually happens every time you hit the brakes. It's just more pronounced at slower speeds.
Does the "chatter" occur before or after you put the low pedal in neutral? Sometimes the engine will "load up" with the throttle closed and the engine being used to compression brake. It might be that when your engine reaches a low speed, it will misfire causing the "chatter". On a level area try putting the clutch in neutral earlier than you have been used to do and see if the chatter stops.
It could also be some slack in the drive train and when you have the brake on, it will pull one way and when you let off the brake, the engine will pull it the other way. Also caused by engine loading up.
The chatter could also be in the bands.
Sorry Bill, I didn't actually read all the ideas but Here's one thing I'd check. With the car in gear and the brake off. Try to rock it back and forth to see how much play is in the drive line after the tranny. You can gauge if you think it's excessive that's this is where you could be getting some shudder. I have a good amount but I have not had any of your issues using mostly my 4 wheel brakes.
Thank you all! I'm taking Wednesday off work and will be addressing the chatter and carburetion issues...