anybody know how much i should pay to have my t starter rebuilt?
langs : 349.95
These prices are from their catalogs. Some use many new parts regardless of need, others rebuild only the parts that are bad and replace only what is needed.
What language is that?
I believe Latin. It means "Buyer Beware"
I think its a kind of caviar.
It is Latin and means, as Seth pointed out, Buyer Beware.
In my opinion the specious reply to a question about how much it costs to “rebuild” a Model T starter is nothing more than a clever marketing pitch to obtain the questioners business.
Words have commonly understood meanings and the word “rebuilt” in automobile repair parlance is well understood.
I happen to know a bit about rebuilding Model T starters and each used unit has ten areas that must be addressed to properly rebuild it. Perhaps you get lucky and find one or two that do not need rework, but $100 will not get anywhere near correcting critical (90+ year old) wear to make it a fully serviceable unit. Yes, you can fix today’s problem, but, in the end, all you have is patched up junk that won’t last.
Ron the Coilman
I thought what Ron was saying was "buyer beware" paying too much to do what wasn't necessary to have a good starter for your car. I'm sorry to see that he was just bad-mouthing Ford-n-more. I don't know where Ron is getting his information about my starters, but for $100.00 (exchange) I can supply you a starter that will likely last you the rest of your life and serve you well in that time. Furthermore, if you are unhappy with it I'll do what I can to make it right.
When I was a kid we used to sell "rebuilt" starters at the gas station where I worked. I did the rebuilding because I procured the starters from the cars I junked. If it worked when hooked up to a battery it got a coat of black spray paint. If it didn't work it got brushes and a sandpaper armature cleaning and a coat of black paint. Occasionally the solenoid got cleaned up or on very rare occasions it got replaced. Unfortunately I think that is the $100 rebuild Ron is talking about. The only difference is that my rebuilt starter was $19 and I provided the starter!
Val, for $100,00 we do what is needed. We dismantle the starter, turn and straighten the armature, replace any insulation that needs it (fields, wires, post, sandblast the case, coat the inside of the case with glyptal, install new brushes, install a ball bearing onto the commutator end of the armature and a seal into the other end.
Wow, who knew posting prices would turn into bad mouthing a company with no reference as to the quality of the work. I'm sorry to Tom for having to take such abuse. Truth is Tom is probably not charging enough, I bet if I was to grab a catalog from 15 years ago the cost to rebuild the same starter would be $100. That being said, good luck Wes with whom ever you choose.
I don't think Ron bad mouthed anyone, but after reading this thread, at least I now know where to buy a $100 starter if I wanted one. I didn't know that anyone offered this for such a low price.
I've done a good number of Model T starters myself. Between the tooling to redo the bendix bushing and ensure all 3 bearings are in line, rebuilding the brush block, wrapping windings, armature rework, etcetera, my hat is off to anyone who will do it for $100 retail. I know that I sure wouldn't (and don't) do it for that. As for parts, costs are less intense than for a generator rebuild, but in my opinion, what remains of the $100 for labor wouldn't be worth the effort (for me at least).
Thanks all for the input. I took the starter to bobs auto electric here in the gorge(hood river) oregon. I was just curious to see what others were charging so as to be armed with knowledge when I go pick up my part from these fellas.
To be more specific
Lang has two rebuilt starters listed one is $349.95 and the other is $161.95.
They are both exchange. The expensive one is supposed to be better.
When I lived in KY I needed a starter for my outboard.
The dealer was asking close to $400 for a new one and about $300 for a rebuilt.
One of the guys at work told me to take it to a rebuilder that was about 10 minutes away.
He rebuilt it with almost all new parts while I waited and it cost me less than $75.
So I believe that Ford-n-More can do rebuild your starter for $100.
By the way - it was about 35 years ago and my ex-son-in-law now has the boat and the starter is still working.
Well, I didn't plan to, but I'm going to jump back in...Jack your $75 rebuild 35 years ago was about the same as a $400 rebuild today (and no way did the armature have to be straightened)! At the prevailing labor rate then, the rebuilder made a handsome sum for his time, particularly if he did it so fast you could wait for it. $100 today for a "T" starter is amazingly inexpensive to the point of being a gift.
As far as the time it takes, I doubt if anyone rebuilding "T" starters could do it while you waited, no matter who is doing it...it's a bunch of work!
Wes...working locally, do not accept any repair that does not include checking and straightening the armature and be sure to take the bendix with you and insist that the bendix/bushing fit is correct and non-binding). If your rebuilder is not 90 years old, or in the "T" hobby, this will probably be news to him. Most of the starters I've done came to me after being repaired by the local starter guy, performing no better than when originally removed. These repairs are one of the primary reason folks will say "6V is no @#$% good" and switch to 12V (a mistake in my opinion). I hope you have better luck than most.
Tom, when my starter needs rebuilding yo da man! I don't know how you can do all that and break even let alone make a buck but I'm game!
I agree with Scott. I am currently in the process of re-rebuilding a starter that was 'rebuilt' by the best shop here in town. I personally don't think they are the best. The wrapped some insulation on the field leads, machined the Babbitt bearing and inserted a bronze busing in the Babbitt? Then to top it off the, output post had pulled out of the buss bar and they used plain solder to fix that problem. I found the issue when I removed the nut on the battery cable and the entire post came right out. The insulators on the brush holder, where nearly disintegrated and oil soaked beyond repair. I do give them credit, the armature shaft had zero run out.
Do yourself a favor and retrieve it and send it out to someone who know what they are doing.
'OSO HANDY RESTORATIONS
Does your starter need rebuilding? Model T starters are quite rugged. Have you thought about just cleaning it up yourself? It's not rocket science.
Ya --whatever if you want to spend $300 or $200 when you can get something that works for $100 go ahead.. I'd rather spend the difference on other things I need.
Just remember "we do what is needed" is not a "rebuilt" starter.
Ron the Coilman
I appreciate Mike Robison offering a starter rebuild for a lower price. I have a great deal of respect for Tom, Hutch, and Mike. With 2 vendors going out of business this year, we need vendors to help keep our Model T going.
An earlier post (&pics) by Tom Carnegie regarding a water temp gauge inspired me to install a temp gauge in my jalopy Coupe, I purchased thru Amazon for $17.
I have about 4000 miles on 2 set's of Ron's coils and I am pleased. Ron has also advised me on a charging problem.
We need people like Tom, Hutch, Mike and Ron in our hobby and I thank you.
Scott, I hate these pissing matches. Some people think that by blowing out your candle, that their candle will shine brighter. I think that implying that our rebuilds are "patched up junk that won't last" qualifies as bad-mouthing.
You can say that what we do doesn't meet your definition of "rebuild", but it meets mine and a lot of other folks.
From Dictionary.com, the definition of rebuild:
"to repair, especially to dismantle and reassemble with new parts:"
Kirk, thanks for the kind words.
1. Do you replace the lead insulation? They're always rotted.
2. Do you remove the brush plate? The contact surfaces are always rusted.
3. Do you straighten and copper plate the brush plate? They all need re-plated.
4. Do you copper plate the contact surface of the brush cover? See #2.
5. Do you gauge the brush holders? Most are corroded and/or swelled causing drag.
6. Do you upgrade the brush plate insulators? They're removed any way. (Or should be.)
7. Do you upgrade the brush cover bearing? Babbitt and Bronze don't last due to lack of lube.
8. Do you replace or re-rap the field coils? The rap is always rotted.
9. Do you clean and check the pole shoe alignment? They can't be installed correctly without a gauge.
10. Do you de-bur/repair the inside of the yoke? Most are deformed at the pole shoe screws.
11. Do you clean and chase the threads in the yoke? They're nearly always filled with debris.
12. Do you check the yoke mating surfaces? They usually need de-burred.
13. Do you replace the pole and insulators? They're usually loose, bent or broken.
14. Do you replace the insulator cards? They're always in sad shape.
15. Do you check the squareness of the mounting bracket and correct? They're most always deformed.
16. Do you replace the mounting bracket bushing? The shaft or bushing is always worn.
17. Do you replace the Bendix drive bushing? These are always brittle Babbitt or worn out of round.
18. Do you line-bore the mounting bracket bushings? This is always a source of drag. See #15
19. Do you provide the seal conversion? Every starter needs it.
20. Do you check the armiture winding contacts? Some are often loose.
21. Do you straighten the shaft along it's entire length? They are always bent.
22. Do you check the key slot and repair? These are often deformed or oversized.
23. Do you turn-down the commutator true to the bearing and check diameter? Every starter needs it.
24. Do you custom fit the end play? Every starter needs it.
25. Do you bench test and check the results to spec? Every starter needs it.
26. Do you provide the results of the test to the customer? Every starter needs it.
There's always 15-20 minutes of machine setup time.
There's always 15-30 minutes of machining time.
There's always about 10-15 minutes of setup and test time.
There's always about 15 minutes of setup and plating time.
There's always disassembly and cleaning time.
There's always precision assembly time.
There's always paint and dry time.
There's always packaging and shipping prep time.
I'm sure I overlooked something but if you can do all that in a rebuild for $100 then all I have to say
is that you are well trained in the art of magic.
Ken, I said I do what is needed. Many of your steps above are not always needed in my opinion. When I am done, you will have a starter that works properly and is sealed against oil leakage. If I should make a mistake or if for any reason you are unhappy with one of my starters, I'll try my best to make it right.
If you need more than this, there are others that will take your money.
Everything written above has merit.
Over the years we repaired hundreds of starters and generators.
No matter what you do to a dead generator there is ONE thing that cannot be tested and it's totally exasperating when you have spent a lot of time repairing a generator and that is a "flying short" in the armature for which there is no test.
The armature will test perfectly in a growler but will not generate in service.......it's enough to drive a person nuts.
What you want in the end is directly proportional to cost.
It's the same difference between a ring and valve job in your engine and a rebuilt engine.
There is no comparison.
So if you're satisfied with a generator that works and or an "as new" one it's your choice.......
I have also wondered sometimes when T parts get rebuilt to 'as new' or 'factory specs' if 'everything' really has to be done.
An honest rebuilder (if they are still out there)
wouldn't charge the same price straight across the board if he really didn't need to.
But some would and still do just because they can say its like new.
This goes for most any hobby that has people who are rebuilders who do the work for others who aren't as knowledgeable. These folks will take your money. Just because they can.
I read lots of ballyhoo pro, con and in between. I hear no complaints about anybody's work, so I think we must haves lot of satisfied customers.
Let me attempt to answer your question.
Model T starters and generators are 90+ years old and have been worked on by many people over the years. What are the chances all those folks knew what they were doing and the word "rebuilt" is commonly carelessly used.
As Ken K. pointed out there are a myriad of issues that must be addressed and assure a quality rebuilt starter product. This doesn't come in degrees of quality
Repairing today's problem only leaves the remainder to crop up later. I learned this the hard way. About ten years ago I simply quit repairing starters; a customers starter I "repaired" subsequently failed for reasons unrelated to the earlier repair and his comment was "well you rebuilt it". I fixed the starter to protect my good name, but at that point I realized I would own this starter for the rest of my life due to unrealistic expectations of the owner.
Today only items with a no quibble one year guarantee leave my shop.
In my experience there are three types of Model T hobbyists; those who would not pay $5 to get cured of cancer, those who make being cheap a badge of honor regardless of quality and every transaction is treated accordingly and those who want the best quality specialized work at a fair honest price. The problem is all three types have the same expectations, so thankfully I usually only get to deal with the later category.
Ron the Coilman
so I called the guy and he said the cost was gonna be about 375 !!!!!! I immediately said that I could get one from langs for 250 and he changed his tune. I am feeling as if I might have I made a 250 mistake but such is the world. This guy says he has done t starters several times and when I get it back I suppose the proof will be in the pudding.