The original unlined brake shoes are still on the car---they are 2 separate shoes, mounted on the single brake shoe support bolt. The shoes we bought are a one piece cast iron type. just wondering if it might be best to split (cut) these at the bolt and use the rear spring to retain it. (no rear spring on the old shoes.) Any experience with this appreciated and thanks, Paul
Here are a couple of earlier discussions on the subject:
Assuming you bought the cast iron brake shoes that are lined, just mount them unsplit, but use springs on front and back. In my case I called the dealer and asked him, and was told no, don't split them. Why would anyone want to split them anyway? If they break there later and you have a spring at the back, yer covered. And by the way they installed easily and work fantastic, for parking.
Ray, you ask why anyone would want to split the shoes. The answer is to prevent them breaking in an in-appropriate place later on. If they break anywhere other than at the pivot bolt, you have a problem, one which can be easily be avoided by splitting the shoes.
They are cast in one piece to make machining/drilling them, and then radius grinding the linings a simpler process. Henry made them the same way, for the same reasons probably. It also made them easier and quicker to assemble, saving more costs. But then it was advised that they be replaced when they broke anywhere but at the pivot bolt.
Can anyone point me to an application where cast iron is used where there is an inbuilt need for the casting to flex?
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Makes sense. What method do you use to split them ?
Hacksaw will slice them like butter.
I sure hope I'm not stealing a thread here, but to me, whether splitting the shoes is better than not in order to prevent a future failure is not as big an issue as braking power. Would either way improve braking performance? I'd love to know that if something went wrong, I can pull that brake handle back and stop the car when I need to.
I installed my shoes on in one piece and my T stops decently as-is, but if splitting them will increasing my stopping power, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I have never had the newer one-piece lined small drum shoes. I hear they are nice, fit better, and work well. But, then, I have never had any troubles from the older cast-in-two-pieces lined small drum shoes either. The one advantage to not splitting them, would be that the shoes would tend to line up around the drums better. The old two piece shoes have a tendency to spring outward and scrape against the drum. I (and others) have found that simple proper fitting and proper placement of the springs generally solves that problem.
As to braking power. Proper adjustment is the most important key to the brakes working well. I have had several cars that used lined cast iron shoes in the small drums, including a center-door sedan. The brake-shoe-cam arms should be straight up at the moment the wheels lock. The brake handle should also be just about straight up. That is the moment that gives the maximum leverage advantage. I could lock the rear wheels of my center-door sedan any time I wanted too, and control the handle to not lock them for maximum braking (given two wheels and skinny high pressure tires). I use the hand brake a lot to save on the transmission brake.
And, by the way, I would probably split the shoes anyway. Considering the risk of the shoes breaking in an in-advantages way, time, and place. I know it was a problem originally (with the non-lined shoes). So unless Some design or materials change has been made to make that unlikely? For my car, that is what I would probably do and why.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Many thanks for all of the input---Guys. Decided to mount them "as is" and they work fine---This forum is great---paul
Here's the best accessory you will find in lined brake shoes for your T. These can be adjusted to engage the drum with full contact. Someone should really reproduce these since they are superior to anything being offered on the market today.
These are on our 15 roadster. I have another NOS set I have put aside that could be used as a pattern for reproducing these.
That is a great accessory Jay. I especially like the rounded tabs on the brass wedge which will help keep the shoes back against the plate. Major improvement for getting more shoe/drum contact early on.
Charley, the wedge will keep the shoes against the backing plate. I wonder if that rounded section actually fills a groove, so the shoes do not migrate backwards and forwards. It would then keep them centred about the pivot bolt/adjuster.
What a great idea.
Allan from down under.
Jay, that is impressive. It would be kind of neat to do a side by side comparison of stopping distances with these versus stock brakes and the new lined brakes.
Cameron: splitting them will not increase stopping power as you'll still be hitting only at the forward or cam end of the shoes. That won't change by splitting them. As they wear and you adjust for play more of the shoe will contact the drum. Will that increase stopping power? Debatable. If you can lock up the rear wheels with new or worn in/properly adjusted shoes that's about it wouldn't you say? Jay's accessory will definitely bring more of the shoe into contact with the drum right from the start. With the T's e. brake system, (it works but kind of sucks), that add-on will give you the best e. brake action you'll get from La Liz.
I'm with Jay. Sure would be nice if someone could reproduce those. Dave
I think that the accessory that Jay shows would make a huge difference in how our rear brakes would perform, and I agree also that anyone making them would find a ready market. I would guess that with no adjustment on the pivot side of the shoes we are only making contact on 50% or less of the drum!
One problem I see though is that the wedges shown seen to require a different type of shoe than is currently being made.
Below is a conceptual drawing (dimensions are only a rough guess) for an adjuster that I considered making, which would fit the current brake shoes. However I have no lathe and no friends with one either. Surely someone out there in the T world with a lathe could knock off a pair of adjusters similar to these in a short amount of time.
If someone can make them and make them work, I'll be first in line to buy a set!