The bands were completely shot in the '14. Since the car is 100 this year I wanted to take it on the Texas T Party tour at San Angelo next month.
I started at 12:30 today with a cold engine and an extra set of bands with linings installed already. The '14 had its original bands (not band linings) so there was no choice but to remove the hogshead. The new bands are the late model Ford script slotted type.
To remove the hogshead from the '14 I had to remove the following:
LH hood shelf
LH firewall bracket
Exhaust manifold (Anderson, so it is the intake too)
I had all that done and the new bands installed with ty - wraps holding them in place by 2:20. Realizing I have no gaskets I had to clean up enough to go to the auto part store and buy some gasket material.
Here is the current status:
So far 1 hour 50 minutes working time. I am sure it will take much longer to reassemble. Any guesses on the total time it will take?
Longer than it takes me to go from here to the pool with a cold one ;)
I have cut the old style bands out with an aviation snip - the type that peels & rolls a strip out. With rags and/or the shop vac. handy, I trim back the low pedal shaft while in the car - makes it a bit faster without having to re-gasket.
Those bands look like they have removable ears? If so are the the "lug" (as opposed to rivet) type? I blew up your pic and they appear to be.
PS my best guess ... an additional 3 hours. And before anyone else says it ... be careful not to drop anything you can't eat in the transmission.
I'm sure you realize that with the removable ears on the passenger side, you cannot simply replace a reverse or low band, if need be, without also removing the brake band as one does not have enough room to drop the opposite ear down into the "abyss" to remove the detachable ear because the fixed ear is up tight to the pedal - you have to bring the band rearward towards the clutch spring to have enough clearance to remove it.
Steve -- Let Royce do it backwards if he wants to.
I wish they were, but they are not. Here is a shot of the old ones:
Here's the current status:
All new gaskets made, assembled with "The Right Stuff", bands adjusted, all the hogshead bolts are in.
Left to do:
Clean the transmission screen
Working time so far: 3:50
To be continued tomorrow - time for a frosty adult beverage.......
You are correct sir!
How many miles do you think you got out of Scandis, Royce ? After all that, I'd probably have to have a couple !
Ten thousand or thereabouts.
An electric start car take about 4 1/2 hours. Your 14 should only take 3 due to not having to deal with the starter.
Looked at the picture again.You gotta admit the ears on the passenger side look like the lug type!
Bud, it sounds like he has already updated and is ready for quick band changes in the future. From his first post..."The new bands are the late model Ford script slotted type."
The removable ear should be on the left (driver's side). To remove with the hogs head in place you need to rotate the bands so that the removable ear is at the top. You cannot do that if you have it in the passenger side.
Newbie..how do you know when you need to change the bands? Thanks for the pics..
That picture is where I stopped after 1 hour 50 minutes. Those are the new bands.
iceman - the transmission inspection door can be opened and you can see the ends of the bands. If the lining material is very thin (less than .1") or missing you know it is time. Another way to tell, you can't adjust one or more of the bands enough to stop slippage.
One way that you know is when the car always feels like it's struggling up a steep grade, and you take the cover off and find that the lining has separated from the band and is jammed against the drum.
Royce, you need more practice. The Ford book says an hour and 53 minutes.
If I worked at a Model T garage I would have been fired long ago Steve!
One of the reasons why I was so interested in your post (and the type of bands) is that I just started a thread a few days ago on whether you can use the lug type removable bands on an older transmission (aluminum hogshead).
The consensus was that you can't, at least without some modification to the ears.
So maybe your hogshead is cast iron, OR maybe you know something they don't! Either way let us know as I am looking at the same job in the near future!
This is a 1925 - ish cast iron hogshead with provisions for a starter. I have used the early style quick change bands with an aluminum cover with no issues.
Am I missing something? I was taught to stuff rags everywhere, and count the rags, to assure that nothing fell into the tranny.
I have the quick change in my aluminum headed 1915 but they are the "button" type, not the long slotted type (seen above) which would not fit (for me).
I must add that because I felt there was very little room in that hog's head I put wooden bands in which I don't particularly like but the '15 is a pickup so pretty light and I am less likely to burn the bands as I have done previously.
I love the feel of the Scandis but also love the longevity of the wooden bands.
Thanks for the info Royce !
Is the cast iron hogshead the reason you removed the hood former? I did the bands in my 14 a few years ago but it has the lightweight hogshead, and I had help so it only took two weekends
My '27 Tudor had the slotted bands in it.
Upon delivery I could barely get the car to move because the low band was so shot I immediately ordered Kevlar lining from Rocky Mountain Machine Co. in Colorado.
Gotta love the way he does business!
He busted a_s getting them out that day for me and stuck the bill in the box!
Before I started I had read pretty much everything there is to read about band changing and lining installation plus scoured the Ford Bible.
From start to finish, including relining the bands (the Kohnke way) I was done in less than 4 hours working through the cover.
I used zip ties to hold the bands together.
Knowing what I now know I WOULD have removed the passenger seat.
I hate to think of lining the bands in the '19 Touring.......can't get ANYTHING out of the way on that.......
At least I have a set of removable ear bands for that one on the shelf.
It would be interesting to know if ANYONE ever got it done in the Ford time frame.
My best repeatable is Ford published time, times 2! And...I AM extremely proud of that fact! I only lost a nut once, but fortunately a 10 year old with skinny arms was willing to 'go fish' in a tight space.
Yet, I will say that I learned something new when redoing the bands in Tom Edison's car. The bands were the slot type as opposed to the rivet type and we were going to reuse the metal bands.
"Through the top" went extremely well until it came to the last band going in. (I refuse to stretch a band to make it go). That slot 'finger' and a boss on the inside of a '22 hogshead called for metal to metal between the two and after an hour of wiggle here/wiggle there without success, I took a break to recoup before pulling the hogshead and someone else jiggled for a few minutes and found the right jiggle spot and it dropped in...
Point here there is a certain combination of maybe 20's issue cars where the 'finger' type has to be just so, or you have to stretch the band, or you are actually almost better off time-wise pulling the hogshead in the first place.
I get a big laugh about the time study on all those repairs in the "black book"! Cripes, when the time comes for me to replace bands, I guarantee you it'll be more like 4-5 hours!! Or, maybe the 45 minutes it'll take me to take the dang car to Joe and just pay him to do it!!
Cripes is right........it takes a lot longer than a lot of their times to get ready to START the car much less DO anything to it....... LOL .......
About 6 months is the re-assembly time. It takes me 3 hours to remove the exhaust pipe yet you have the top off already? i have no idea how you get the top back on again either. Do you have to place a jack between the front and rear axles to get the driveshaft to stop interfering with the top?
A year or so ago Dan Treace who posts from time to time found a Ford add about changing bands that was a eye opener.
If I remember correctly Ford had a Mechanic named Joe Bell who could change a set of bands in less than 30 minutes!
Seems like it was a pitch add about using the new detachable ear bands that made the process a lot easier and faster.
I did a search and still cant find the add on the forum but its there somewhere.
Gee, it only took me about 45 minutes. Of course, that was before I put the rebuilt engine in the car. Next band change I'm simply going to buy another T that has the new bands already in it. Much easier at my age.
Total elapsed working time was 5 hours 50 minutes. The hood former had to be removed so the firewall to frame bracket could be removed so that the starter upper outboard bolt could be removed!
Feels great to have a good set of bands again! It took a couple test drives to get the adjustment perfect. By the last drive I had to use the lights.
No job at Ford for Royce either....... LOL
Royce, apologies if you mentioned it and I missed it, but what lining material did you use on your new bands? Thanks.
Kevlar for all three. First time for me.
O come on Royce some of us know you have used Kevlar for the brake band ONLY.. I put NOS cotton all the way around on your old roadster. Never any lent but it's not run a whole lot these days.
Thanks for the posting; the pictures and timing the process. Very informative. Now I don't feel so bad when I take days to complete a "simple" project
Are you using carbide or a Prestolite tank? I love gas lights! I hope to own a gas light T one day.
Right, I normally use Kevlar on the brake band only. I forgot to bring any of the Montgomery Wards bands with me from Dallas, so I ended up using three of the Kevlar cause that is all I had here.
Generator and a handful of calcium carbide.
That is more trouble, but I bet it is more fun too. One more thing to show people how it works. A gas bottle is pretty straight forward, but a carbide generator just opens the door to more questions and more opportunity to educate people.