I need to replace my quadrant and pawl on my 25, it recently starting popping off, disregarding what this can do to this loving owners blood pressure, especially when running My question concerns what the proper quadrant for my car actually is. Lang's lists their 2 hole for (25-27) and their 4 hole for (09-25), Snyder's lists their 2 hole for (26-27) and their 4 hole for (09-25). My car now has a 2 hole quadrant, but 4 holes in the frame. Was there a transition period late in 25 to the two hole, and should i use the 4 hole if there are 4 holes already in the frame? The last people who restored the car might have changed it because it has a nice rivet job, and undisturbed frame paint. Any thoughts?
Before you go to all the work removing it, use a triangular file and recut the teeth then check the pall it may need to be replaced, if it isn't sharp it will not hold.
I try and put the clutch in and press the handle so the pall doesn't rake across the quadrant teeth when setting the hand brake.
You have a two hole quadrant, so that's what you need. Often, only the pawl is the problem. As Mark says, it needs to be sharp. It's usually easier to weld up the end of the pawl and grind or file out a new tooth on the end of it than to replace it.
Thanks Mark, that was my initial thought, but its just too far worn to file and the pawl is even worse. And your suggestion about pressing the spring open when you pull back makes perfect sense when you think about it..50% less wear and tear on something you use constantly.
Erik, than why do i have 4 holes in my frame..is that typical for a 25?
Unless i am not seeing the bad place in the pic, that is definitely a candidate for filing with a small triangle file as mentioned above. Mine was much worse and works great now.
Jake, its pretty hard to tell from the pic, but its very well worn. I was hoping for a file job, but i think its beyond that and the pawl is worn in the shape of a U in the middle. ..Still not sure what to order yet.
Doesn't look shot from here either. Why disturb the rivets when 5 minutes of work might solve the problem? Always grip the handle and release the pawl when ever moving it. Saves wear on every thing.
Thanks Charlie, believe me if thought it was worth saving i certainly would try. I am still wondering if the one i have on here is correct or not because of the 4 holes in my frame.
John, I wouldn't be in too big of a hurry to replace the quadrant until you repair/replace the pawl. I'll bet you will be surprised at how much difference it will make. As has been said, a bit of file work may be all that is needed on the quadrant then. JMHO. Dave
Thanks David, i just thought since they work in conjunction with each other it was probably best to replace them both. It seems to me that replacing the pawl would be more complicated than replacing the quadrant. I usually side with the dreaded purists here, but bolting on a quadrant seems pretty reasonable considering its a part that has constant wear and tear and will be serviced frequently. But i still don't know if this 2 bolt is what my 25 originally came with.
The 25 has the two hole quadrant, but the frames retain the 4 holes for quite a while after the change. Since yours is nicely riveted on, it's likely factory.
Thank you David, that's the answer i was hoping for. It definitely wasn't changed after the restoration, just couldn't figure out why the frame had the extra holes...Thanks for clearing that up, greatly appreciated.
I replaced both the quadrant and pawl and never regretted it. Now I know that when I put the brake on, it will stay on. Nothing wrong with using bolts here and it makes it easy to replace if needed in 50 years or so.
IMHO 4 bolts are better than 2 if your frame is already drilled for them.
Very good point Bud, since its already drilled and i have to replace it anyway, why not take advantage of the two extra holes..this will probably be the route i take, i was just curious of the way it progressed from 2 to 4 holes, and why.Thanks for all the input from everyone.
During the switch over from four hole to two hole, Ford needed to use up the old design frames. I've seen lots of these. Don't worry about it! It's easier to replace the pawl, if you take the whole assembly off the car. Snyders catalog is incorrect. Same thing with the tag on the firewall. Many vendors list the four hole tag as including 1925, which is incorrect. They should have a two hole tag. Research is the answer.
I see you haven't got any accessory spring from the pawl rod down to the cross shaft. It'll increase the force and help holding the pawl securely to the quadrant. Easy to make with any fitting spring and some wire but if you've got other parts to order from the vendors..
Fairly common to see this. Ford would use up the frames as they were already punched.
If the spring behind the hand lever is broke or weak it wont hold the pawl securely in place.
I carefully drilled out the two rivets on the hand lever and replaced the spring. I simply used two pop rivets and carefully braded them down.
It works like new without having to use an extra spring to hold it in place.
I dug out a NOS quadrant, and the construction is note resting to,me, and maybe some help in the discussion. When stamped out originally, you end up with a very sharp quadrant teeth. They actually come to a bit of a point. The original was stamped out. I'm guessing the reproduction ones are laser or water jet cut, And both methods would leave pretty flat teeth. Maybe just a very slight taper, but you probably can't even notice it. ( it may be enough of a taper to cause the pawl to want to go to one side or another ) Perhaps Fords original thinking was the pawl was the expendable item, but it would be important to adjust it so the center of the pawl rode on the point of the teeth. That is why so many are wore away in the middle. The brake handle is easily bent to get this condition, but does take a good look when adjusting it. I am posting a couple of pictures to try and show the pointed teeth on the NOS part.
NOTE RESTING in first sentence should be INTERESTING . SORRY
IIRC, the rivets are 9/32", 1/4" bolts are too small and 5/15" bolts are too big. Didn't want to drill it out so I used 7mm bolts when I replaced the quadrant on our '25.
These worked great for my quadrant replacement. The ribbed portion was a good snug fit in the holes.
Brian is right! He recommended those bolts to me and they worked great!!
Well, i replaced my new quadrant and pawl today after a nice speedy delivery from Lang's. I knew that they needed to be replaced, but after getting it out i realized what a fool i have been for treating/ trusting this like you would a modern e-brake. I shudder when i think about all the times i ran the car at a high rpm without blocks while outside the car fiddling with it. Huge newbie mistake never to be made again, even with the new parts, always block the tires.
Also forgot to thank all those with the great tips for bolts etc..big help.