Interesting windshield arrangement or lack thereof - notice the wing nut type of device near the outer bottom ?
Check out the upholstery, different from U.S.
The headlights are higher too, like some of the 1917 ads.
On my 17 touring, the top clipped to the windshield frame. I wonder what holds up the top in this vehicle?
The body and hood appear to be a different color than the fenders and radiator shell too. Dave
The cowl lamps are placed lower as well. That upholstery is spiffy!
Do y'all think that's a new car, or a restored one? Does the number plate give a clue?
I'd say new. Dave
This car looks very English to me! Right hand drive and the registration number is a series issued by the town of Smethwick which is in the west midlands and is now part of the greater Birmingham area. Also the car seems to be new!
I agree with Ken. Background, especially the fingerboard sign post suggests England to me.
Definitely not N.Z. their number plates did not have a dot between letters.
Can't be kiwi, there are no sheep visible...
Bottom Line Up Front: If someone can determine what country the license plate is from, it would be extremely helpful in figuring out the car. Great photo Jay!
Previously discussed at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/359846.html?1367878587 .
Clearly a 1917 ish – 1918 ish chassis with the wishbone above the axle and the Black Radiator.
Note it appears NOT to have the button mounted on TOP of the steering column like the 1915-1917 cars. But it appears to have the horn button that is held around the column like the 1918-1927 cars. But it appears to be installed on the right side rather than the typical USA location of the left side of the steering column.
If it had the horn button secured to the top of the steering column it could have been an early 1917ish USA, CA, or UK chassis. But with the horn button NOT on the top of the steering column it is not a later 1918-20s CA car.
Mentioned in the previous thread:
Not Australia – they don’t put the dots between the letters but instead between the letters and the first numbers –- Paul Hunter.
Not NZ – again dots wrong place.
Not England – they think the dots are in the wrong place -- but still open for confirmation or correction. The “dots” between the letters on the license plate are not normal for a British registration (per the e-mail thread). So if someone can figure out the license plate (were there exceptions in England in the 1917-1918 time frame? Or did some other country or location use an A “dot” H license plate?) that would probably help determine where the car was made.
Requested information on Ireland – but nothing was posted.
But since we have a nice photo of the car and plate – assuming it was not “photo-shopped” etc. then some place used the dot between the letters – at least on one license plate.
Interesting observation not mentioned before: The radiator cap is off and you can see steam coming from the radiator.
Interesting and mentioned before: Note the 5 bow top;
I’m personally leaning toward an English car with a custom body. But we need a little more information to confirm or correct that.
Hap l9l5 cut off
What I know about that car in this photo, is that is a very attractive looking car, and I wish I could have it just as it was when the photo was taken! So I don't mind seeing it posted again, and discussed at length, whether or not the license plate is figured out.
There are so many lovely details to that photo. I won't rehash most of them. But I do wonder what color it was? The body and hood both appear to not have been black. Impossible to know for sure from a black and white photo however.
Thank you all!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
No doubts - it's English. I disagree with Ken Carpenter, my reference book says AH is Norfolk county between Jan 1904 to Jan 1923. Don't worry about dots, dashes etc on early British plates, they were all hand-painted back then by the local agent.
I'm no expert on the black cars. I've been through both volumes of The English Model T Ford and can't find a windscreen like that pictured. Notice the spark (RH lever being rhd) is part way down, hope no one got hurt cranking it after the photo, unless it was running of course :^)
I would think this is somewhere in Britain.
Not DownUnder ; foliage looks wrong, also the number plate
Also the touring body does not look standard T.
Something the Brits would have made?
Agree with Wayne. It appears to be 1919 - ish, but the British were making LH drive cars with generators and Dearborn style bodies about then. This may be some sort of prototype Trafford park body. Or it could be French.
Here's a French custom bodied town car from the same approximate period:
AH3323 - If the wolfbane site is correct the vehicle is registered in "AH- Norfolk"
Also from (http://www.cvpg.co.uk/REG.pdf)
These plates are rare and are normally only seen on newer vehicles as cherished or personalised numbers. However, some still exist and were originally issued to vehicles first registered between 1903 and the mid 1930's
European etal registration see
Looks like a flat tube radiator. Are we certain this isn't a recent photo?
I put it next to our 1918 known round tube radiator and I don't see any key idicators that they are different (ok I believe one is much newer than the other...but that could have been it was newer when the photo was taken.) But I may be missing something obvious -- that happens. I always want to learn, so please let us know why you think it is a flat tube radiator so I will know what to look for on other photos in the future.
And no we are not certain it was not taken recently. That is part of the fun of date that car/photo.
Royce -- weren't most French Model Ts left hand drive?
Hap l9l5 cut off
Britain made and exported Model T chassis to France. I don't know when France officially went to RH traffic, but many French home market cars were produced exclusively with the steering wheel on the RH side into the 1930's. By that time the French were driving on the RH side of the road but apparently it was still "stylish" to have the steering wheel on the wrong side.
The license plate being British means the car is registered in England. We just don't know where the body came from.
Too often those who post photos do just that - post a photograph. What would help if they could supply any additional information that is available at the time. Examples would be a link to the site it was taken from, the name of the book it was scanned from, where did you find the postcard?
Think about it a bit. Someone on this forum might just know of or even with a bit of luck own that very car in the photograph (yeah I know that's a long shot). But just imagine how stoked you would be if you could trace back you cars history beyond the day it first arrived in your driveway.
Additionally the help that info would provide to those who are actively documenting and recording the history of the Ford Motor Company especially the humble Model T would be invaluable.
The other side of the coin is that just supplying a photograph stimulates discussion, research and ultimately improving our collective knowledge of our hobby.
Its just a thought, but remember what additional info you can supply will always be appreciated by those reading your posts.
I have a flat tube brass works and it looks identical in tube width, and also the flat tubes appear nearly flush with the fins as opposed to the round tubes which set back farther.
Just as it appears to me.