Old Photo - Overseas T

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Old Photo - Overseas T
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 - 10:24 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 - 10:30 am:

Interesting windshield arrangement or lack thereof - notice the wing nut type of device near the outer bottom ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ED Henline on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 - 10:37 am:

Check out the upholstery, different from U.S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 - 11:01 am:

The headlights are higher too, like some of the 1917 ads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 - 11:47 am:

On my 17 touring, the top clipped to the windshield frame. I wonder what holds up the top in this vehicle?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 - 11:50 pm:

The body and hood appear to be a different color than the fenders and radiator shell too. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 - 09:08 am:

The cowl lamps are placed lower as well. That upholstery is spiffy!

Do y'all think that's a new car, or a restored one? Does the number plate give a clue?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 - 01:07 pm:

I'd say new. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Carpenter on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 - 05:12 pm:

This car looks very English to me! Right hand drive and the registration number is a series issued by the town of Smethwick which is in the west midlands and is now part of the greater Birmingham area. Also the car seems to be new!
jus sayin


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 - 11:08 pm:

New Zealand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dane Hawley Near Melbourne Australia on Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 06:00 am:

I agree with Ken. Background, especially the fingerboard sign post suggests England to me.
Definitely not N.Z. their number plates did not have a dot between letters.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 06:56 am:

Can't be kiwi, there are no sheep visible...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 07:12 am:

Bottom Line Up Front: If someone can determine what country the license plate is from, it would be extremely helpful in figuring out the car. Great photo Jay!

Additional details:

Previously discussed at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/359846.html?1367878587 .

Clearly a 1917 ish – 1918 ish chassis with the wishbone above the axle and the Black Radiator.

Note it appears NOT to have the button mounted on TOP of the steering column like the 1915-1917 cars. But it appears to have the horn button that is held around the column like the 1918-1927 cars. But it appears to be installed on the right side rather than the typical USA location of the left side of the steering column.

If it had the horn button secured to the top of the steering column it could have been an early 1917ish USA, CA, or UK chassis. But with the horn button NOT on the top of the steering column it is not a later 1918-20s CA car.

Mentioned in the previous thread:

Not Australia – they don’t put the dots between the letters but instead between the letters and the first numbers –- Paul Hunter.

Not NZ – again dots wrong place.

Not England – they think the dots are in the wrong place -- but still open for confirmation or correction. The “dots” between the letters on the license plate are not normal for a British registration (per the e-mail thread). So if someone can figure out the license plate (were there exceptions in England in the 1917-1918 time frame? Or did some other country or location use an A “dot” H license plate?) that would probably help determine where the car was made.

Requested information on Ireland – but nothing was posted.

But since we have a nice photo of the car and plate – assuming it was not “photo-shopped” etc. then some place used the dot between the letters – at least on one license plate.

Interesting observation not mentioned before: The radiator cap is off and you can see steam coming from the radiator.

Interesting and mentioned before: Note the 5 bow top;

I’m personally leaning toward an English car with a custom body. But we need a little more information to confirm or correct that.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 09:18 pm:

What I know about that car in this photo, is that is a very attractive looking car, and I wish I could have it just as it was when the photo was taken! So I don't mind seeing it posted again, and discussed at length, whether or not the license plate is figured out.
There are so many lovely details to that photo. I won't rehash most of them. But I do wonder what color it was? The body and hood both appear to not have been black. Impossible to know for sure from a black and white photo however.
Thank you all!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett on Tuesday, September 23, 2014 - 10:37 am:

No doubts - it's English. I disagree with Ken Carpenter, my reference book says AH is Norfolk county between Jan 1904 to Jan 1923. Don't worry about dots, dashes etc on early British plates, they were all hand-painted back then by the local agent.

I'm no expert on the black cars. I've been through both volumes of The English Model T Ford and can't find a windscreen like that pictured. Notice the spark (RH lever being rhd) is part way down, hope no one got hurt cranking it after the photo, unless it was running of course :^)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wayne tomlins on Wednesday, September 24, 2014 - 04:42 am:

I would think this is somewhere in Britain.
Not DownUnder ; foliage looks wrong, also the number plate
Also the touring body does not look standard T.
Something the Brits would have made?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, September 24, 2014 - 05:37 am:

Agree with Wayne. It appears to be 1919 - ish, but the British were making LH drive cars with generators and Dearborn style bodies about then. This may be some sort of prototype Trafford park body. Or it could be French.

Here's a French custom bodied town car from the same approximate period:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Wednesday, September 24, 2014 - 10:14 am:

AH3323 - If the wolfbane site is correct the vehicle is registered in "AH- Norfolk"
http://www.wolfbane.com/vreg.htm

Also from (http://www.cvpg.co.uk/REG.pdf)
These plates are rare and are normally only seen on newer vehicles as cherished or personalised numbers. However, some still exist and were originally issued to vehicles first registered between 1903 and the mid 1930's

European etal registration see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Europe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_United_Kingdom,_ Crown_dependencies_and_overseas_territories

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_New_Zealand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Germany


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Wednesday, September 24, 2014 - 01:48 pm:

Looks like a flat tube radiator. Are we certain this isn't a recent photo?

Vince M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, September 24, 2014 - 05:43 pm:

Vince,

I put it next to our 1918 known round tube radiator and I don't see any key idicators that they are different (ok I believe one is much newer than the other...but that could have been it was newer when the photo was taken.) But I may be missing something obvious -- that happens. I always want to learn, so please let us know why you think it is a flat tube radiator so I will know what to look for on other photos in the future.



And no we are not certain it was not taken recently. That is part of the fun of date that car/photo.

Royce -- weren't most French Model Ts left hand drive?

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Thursday, September 25, 2014 - 06:56 am:

Hap,

Britain made and exported Model T chassis to France. I don't know when France officially went to RH traffic, but many French home market cars were produced exclusively with the steering wheel on the RH side into the 1930's. By that time the French were driving on the RH side of the road but apparently it was still "stylish" to have the steering wheel on the wrong side.

The license plate being British means the car is registered in England. We just don't know where the body came from.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Powell on Thursday, September 25, 2014 - 07:56 am:

Too often those who post photos do just that - post a photograph. What would help if they could supply any additional information that is available at the time. Examples would be a link to the site it was taken from, the name of the book it was scanned from, where did you find the postcard?

Think about it a bit. Someone on this forum might just know of or even with a bit of luck own that very car in the photograph (yeah I know that's a long shot). But just imagine how stoked you would be if you could trace back you cars history beyond the day it first arrived in your driveway.

Additionally the help that info would provide to those who are actively documenting and recording the history of the Ford Motor Company especially the humble Model T would be invaluable.

The other side of the coin is that just supplying a photograph stimulates discussion, research and ultimately improving our collective knowledge of our hobby.

Its just a thought, but remember what additional info you can supply will always be appreciated by those reading your posts.

Regards

David


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Thursday, September 25, 2014 - 09:50 am:

Hap,
I have a flat tube brass works and it looks identical in tube width, and also the flat tubes appear nearly flush with the fins as opposed to the round tubes which set back farther.

Just as it appears to me.

Thanks!

Vince


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