Does anyone know for certain which one of these two is the correct timer cover for 1912? If either..
Its the one on the bottom. This oil fill port has an especially small opening into the engine, which can result in longer and messier filling.
There was a large hole cover that was used in early 1912. That cover does not have an oil fill and you fill the engine through a spout on the timer. Depending on when your car was build, that might be an option.
The top one is a 17-18.
So shorter spout, bottom one, is correct for 1912?
I'm no expert but I thought the 12 was large hole, with no oil spout...?
Anyone have a photo of the correct 1912 timer cover?
I've just rebuilt a 12 and the cover was the same as your bottom one, you can't fit the modern cam seal in it.
If it is not on the car you can machine the cover to take the modern seal easily enough.
This the cover of which I spoke
What Tom shows in the photos is a rare cover not used for very long.
So does anyone know for sure which is the correct standard cover for 1912? Royce?
Mine is like the one on the bottom, short filler neck, small hole with difficulty filling. Must be done slowly or you have a real mess.
Allan from down under.
From earlier post appears the later 1912 used the same cover for all the non-generator cars up to about 1919.
John F. Regan on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 01:20 am:
There were at least 6 unless the early water pump car had a different one and then there were 6. The factory number of 690 came later and the D suffix would indicate then 4 of those. 1910 used a coil spring fan tensioner, 1911 used a vertical bolt tensioner, early 1912 oiler timer used a cover with no oil filler hole, 1912 and later used the cover with no generator mounting, 1919 then had a generator mounting...not sure what happens in the middle... and then the last one had no adjuster for the fan at all since it used the eccentric.
The Dec 1912 Parts and Price list shows this later cover with the timer, with the fan arm mount.
and in the same 1912 Parts book are these two earlier timer covers, the lower one with the "set screw".
The lower one in Greg's picture is a correct 1912 cover. The upper one in Greg's picture is 1913 - 1919.
In 1919 the generator adaptation to the engine block caused all cars to begin using the cover for generator equipped cars.
I'm going to disagree with Royce. The '13s did use the earlier cover pictured, in fact, in 1915 they modified the cover for the felt seal so you wouldn't have to press it in, AND, it will take a modern seal too.
First -- thanks to everyone who has been sharing and for the inputs. I was really surprised that I couldn't put my hands on a nice photo of a 1912, 1913, 1914, 1915 timing gear cover from original photos. I did find some original photos under the engine painting questions, but due to the angle of the photo (the water inlet side photos were zero help) and because of the shadows and/or resolution on the other photos I could not tell how far the oil filler went down.
I also thought I would check the changes that are often listed in Bruce's (R.I.P.) book but the timing cover was not included (or I missed it). So I checked Gail Rodda's Vol 1 and Vol II Parts Identification Guides and I didn't see it listed there. I don't have his Vol 3 but from memory (that is dangerous) I think it deals primarily with the early 1909 water pump engine cars.
All that to say -- great work -- it looks like there is agreement that the bottom timer cover would be appropriate for a 1912 engine (very early engines would have the other timing cover that used the timer with the built in oil filler).
There is still room for additional information - i.e. when was the longer oil filler introduced and how much overlap when both style may have been used?
What were the changes in the 1912 style as it moved to later years?
A very minor correction to Royce's cut off date on when the top style timer cover was discontinued from normal assembly line use. I believe that top style cover which is part number 3009B continued into 1921 when a car or truck was supplied without the electrical equipment. Sometime during 1921 it appears Ford stopped using the part # 3017B that also took the non-genertor style timing cover and used part # 3017 on all engines and just used a block off plate if the generator was not installed. For a more detailed discussion of that please see the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/153324.html And if there are any corrections (I enjoy learning new things -- and there are lots of them about the Fords) to that information or dates, please let us/me know. Photos courtesy of Corey Walker from the thread mentioned above.
I believe the change cards and drawings could help us determine the approximate time when things changed.
Thanks again for everyone's inputs and hopefully additional clarification.
Hap l9l5 cut off
Thanks to all , much appreciated...as always..
The 1912 style only lasted the single season from what I have seen. The 1913 - 1916 (approximately) covers have the same groove for the felt seal as the 1912 version, but the elongated oil fill area like the top cover in Greg's first post. The changes were evolutionary, like most things Model T.
Canadian parts books change the timing cover in 1912.
The 12 I rebuilt was the only one I've seen with the felt groove, anything else, later veteran, I've never had an issue in fitting a modern seal.
Left, 1912, felt groove and small oil fill hole.
If you guys need a photo, I'll do it, but I hate taking pictures for the forum. A 1915 cover is just like the bottom one in Gregs photo, except it can take a modern seal like the ones posted above, but still has the SHORT filler. That is why I disagreed with Royces comments.