How many people here do not know the true dimension of a 2x4? I guess the 2x6 & 2x10 suits are next.
Next will be a requirement to call it Dos x Cuatro to appease the majority of California's population.
If I was Lowes I would give them the alternative measurements in metrics,45 x 90. That should stuff up the inspectors, comply with the direction for accurate description and maybe get the program started on metrification.
Allan from down under.
This is the society we have created. I wish to create my own country now like we did way back when. Problem is there really isn't any free space in the world anymore. I'll just go and take some from somebody like we always have I guess.
Well you never know how dumb or politically correct people can be. My sister in law was visiting us from the UK last week and I was singing baa baa black sheep to my two little grand daughters and my sister in law informed me that in Britain they say baa baa rainbow sheep ! How could I have been so bad ?
surely we've all seen old lumber that is a true 2x4, and i've often when the mills started to cheat us and when did it start. i'm sure it was some poor struggling multi billionare trying to make more profit for himself while paying the workers dirt
Our of control radical democrats in the People's Republic of California. Whoever leaves last be sure you turn off the lights.
Clayton, true 2x4 lumbar is not finished, if you want 2x4s that measure 2 inches by 4 inches, you ask for unfinished, it is actually cheaper, finished 2x4s go through the planer that takes 1/8th inch off each side to give a smooth finish. If you like splinters go for it. But to go an a communist tirade against the lumbar industry is crap.
California is so dang broke this is probably just the start. They will find every way they can to get a buck.But you know, I blame Lowes for wimping out.
They should have fought that tooth and nail.
But I guess going back to what I just said, California has no money and will chase every dollar they can.
I could agree with Royce on this 1 , Except I dont think the lights have been on in that state for a long time!
The 2x4 dimension is for the rough lumber. Those are the dimensions that the boards are cut from the log. After it is dried (it shrinks during drying) and planed smooth in both dimensions, it is now 1-1/2 x 3-1/2. Back in the 1950's it was 1-5/8 x 3-5/8, but they changed it to 1-1/2 x 3-1/2 to save 1/8" of material and get more uniform results.
(Message edited by coupelet on September 26, 2014)
These folks are a bit late to the party. There was a time when a 2x4 really measured 2" x 4", but that was many decades ago. I believe this is the Lowe's customer who filed the original suit.
That's a shame. "Settlement" only emboldens the government extortionists of a cash strapped state to create new and more ludicrous lawsuits than this. Ultimately, everybody loses.
If you want 2" x 4" lumber, you need to go to a sawmill and get it at that point in the process. You'll get material which is that size, but it won't be dried or planed. That's just the way it works.
This lawsuit is frivolous, as most of them these days are.
Of course, there are those on this forum who choose to turn any thread they can into a political rant, whether there is any basis for it or not.
Mike, it not a rant if its true, California is run by a certain "political ideology" that is certain to be its ultimate downfall..Royce is right. And I'M sure my State will watch this closely and follow suite. Big money to be made in States that spend money hand over fist with no idea where it goes, and doesn't care.
model Ts gentlemen. model ts. Period
This is my 2x4, made it after one I saw in a pub in the UK....and will do the job
At what point do we stop catering to the lowest common denominator ? I would really like to see the pendulum swing more toward the survival of the fittest profile.
Steve Jelf, I can always count on you for comic relief. Thank you. The U Tube bit is priceless.
The 2x4 in the store is S4S, Surfaced 4 Sides.
Most of the 2x4 in my Model T era house are S2S, and measure 2" x 3 3/4". There's no point in planing the 4" sides of a stud. It just costs more and reduces strength.
Lowes deserves to pay $1.6 Million, for being so stupid to not fight this.
Lowered crime rate leaves too many district attorneys with too little to do.
And we wonder why this country is going nowhere fast. These are the same folks who grow up believing New Mexico is another country.
California is full of them.
We live in a farm house that is about 150 years old and all wooden materials are true measurements. Also the wood used is very very difficult to plane
OK. Lowes crumbled so now let's go after the other 100,000 building supply stores that have been committing the same "fraud" for the last 75 years.
I nominate the judge for Idiot of the decade.
Out of the 1.6 million settlement, did anyone other than the shyster lawyer get anything?
Test laboratories have started using Lawyers for testing because the lab workers were getting to attached to the rats.
They should have included the thickness of plywood and chip board.
Speaking of Californicate, a good friend retired from a fire dept with a medical discharge. His medical discharge pay was based on rank, and time served. After some 10 years of getting his monthly disability check, the state decided to charge him state income tax on his disability money. Then to add insult to injury they added a "fire administration fee" to his property in the county he lived in. They have figured out citizens can not challenge a "fee". They are free to add fees to anything they wish at anytime. He as a retired fire dept officer asked what the fee covered. Their answer administration fee. Just a way to gouge the tax payer.
He fixed the buggers, he moved to another state and guess what no income tax, and his medical insurance was 1/2 the cost of the same company same coverage but in another state.
Jay, I heard the reason they're using lawyers is that there are some things a rat won't do.
In my country 4X2 really was 4x2. i know this because i used demolished building timber for a long time. We had 3x2 as well and it really was 3 by 2 inches.
Unless the fireman is getting upwards of $70K in pension, his Calif income tax is pretty small. Since that pension is paid from Calif, the state will always charge him income tax on it, regardless of where he lives.
A roving doctor from our BlueX insurer had just been to Southern Oregon, and was shocked at the poor quality medical care available there.
No free lunch.
I think Lowes need to can their lawyers and hire a new bunch that know what they are doing.
So when you drive on muddy roads you need to carry a 1 and a half by 3 and a half to pry your T out of the mud.
If you drive a TT you need to carry a 1 and a half by 5 and a half.
What those people need is a 1 1/2 by 3 1/2 against the side of their heads.
I would guess every lumber yard in the U.S. sells them 1.5 X 3.5. Does any lumber yard sell them 2 X4?
So now what do I do with 2 by 4 Stew??
TWO BY FOUR STEW
2 pounds ground meat---browned
2 cans Rotel tomatoes
2 cans Minestrome soup
2 cans Ranch Style Beans
Mix all ingredients--season to taste
Simmer 30 minutes to one hour
What better reason to head for the hills than the hillbilly ladies of Hee-Haw?
For future reference:
There could be big money to be made off anyone selling 'quarter pound' hamburgers...
...or maybe Lowe's should have said 2x4 is just the the size before cooking.
Tim, someone already sued over a "foot long" hotdog that wasn't actually 12 inches! It's crazy what people are suing over, and the courts allow it!
You have to have a level of consumer and worker protection, or the big would run roughshod over the little. I first came to appreciate our tort law after living in Mexico City in 1961. There would be a hole in the sidewalk several feet deep on a dimly lighted street, with no barriers or flags. Tort law almost didn't exist in that dictatorship.
I think Lowes has long shown the actual thickness of their plywood, in addition to the common name.
If we have one too many lawyers, they will cause havoc, for sure. We need to strike a balance.
An interesting twist on the lawyer situation is Shakespeare's oft-quoted line which is usually misinterpreted. Shakespeare's exact line ''The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers,'' was stated by Dick the Butcher in ''Henry VI,'' Part II, act IV, Scene II, Line 73. Dick the Butcher was a follower of the rebel Jack Cade, who thought that if he disturbed law and order, he could become king. Shakespeare meant it as a compliment to attorneys and judges who instill justice in society. Things change, but people don't.
I think the problem with lawyers and the justice system is that it is has nothing to do with justice. Lawyers are taught that they should win. I have often heard defense lawyers say that they do not care if their client is guilty or innocent. Any lawyer who would make such a statement should be disbarred, just as any prosecuting attorney who would make a similar claim should be disbarred. Because if a prosecuting attorney stated that he did not care if the defendant was innocent of guilty, his job was to convict him, that would sound just as corrupt as the same statement form a defense attorney. Justice in this country is sold to the highest bidder in many cases. The fact that lawyers and judges are exempt from liability in their work makes things even worse.
The question that comes to my mind is -- who gets that money? Besides the lawyers, I mean.
I guess California gets it.
But, the suit was based on the idea that consumers who bought lumber at Lowe's were cheated. Hold on -- did any of those consumers get any of that money? Of course not.
Now, will someone please tell me just how the State of California, or any other state, was harmed by the mis-labeling of the lumber?
I mean, when a judge requires party #1 to pay party #2 money to compensate for damages, you assume that party #2 was shown to have been damaged to the extent of the amount of money awarded. Of course, they sometimes add extra money to the award, to "teach them a lesson." But in reality, it makes no sense to make this kind of award, especially when the award, minus attorney's fees and court costs, will go into the State's treasury.
Oh, wait! I get it! It's a tax!! Imposed by the Judicial Branch, rather than the Legislative Branch, which is given the authority to tax.
Paul was right. Run for the hills.
I think that its time to head for the hills when.
The commercial tells you it only will cost you $90.00 for the first 1/2 hr. ($180.00 an hour???)
You get a $500.00 discount for something that only cost $200.00 5 years ago.
A $3000.00 roof replacement 10 years ago will only cost you $20000.00 today.
These are adds I'm hearing daily on the Radio and TV.
These aren't just our lawyers these are SOME of our greedy local business men, maybe outside owned.
My retirement, (if i'm lucky) may get a 1% coast of living increase each year, (I haven't been lucky.) Those hills look better and better if you can afford to pack up and move.
I have a home built in 1947 when new lumber was scarce. It was built by a carpenter and a stone mason. The wall studs are all reclaimed rough cut 2x4s. The other dimension lumber are 1/8 larger than the present lumber. I need to use shims if I put a new piece of lumber next to an older one. I have known since I was a young boy that dimension lumber was not the actual size as what it was called. There are other items in our society that are not always what we call them. For example, an "Honest Politician".
I believe the first part of the quote is "If you want a dictatorship , then..." but I still think we need to thin the herd.
Q: How many lawyers does it take to change a light bulb
A: How many can you afford?
Dang it Royce, I now have beer to wipe up and my nose is burning where my beer squirted out. That was funny!
There goes one now. The one chasing the ambulance.
When I was growing up, my family made Baby Furniture. No one ever sued them. If a child was hurt when using one of the items, it was an "unfortunate accident". I am glad that I did not follow in their occupation. They had toy boxes with a top which lifted up, and beds with drop sides and many things which are now outlawed. Lawyers have one thing in mind. Make money for themselves and if there is any left, for their clients.
Your right, as honest politican is an oxymoron
I guess pipe dimensions are next!
I thought political discussions are banned
Well this aint political! :>)
I told a friend of mine today that perhaps we needed to go to Mcdonalds and whine about the 1/4 pounder not being a 1/4 pound. But then we realized,they already cover their behinds on that because they put the "before cooked" on there.
I had to deal with a lawyer for nearly 8 years. Nov-05 till april-13 .
He hung in there till my social security case reached the federal court level.He dumped me. The money was not easy enough for him.
If it tells you anything about how simple it was, I filed my own civil action in federal district court.Typed up my own briefs and all. Lost of course because it was decided I could clean tables in a restaurant,so not disabled
But anyhow,since I was a kid, I have always felt a lawyer was a 2 legged snake. After what I have went thru,I can confirm, they ARE 2 legged snakes. I aint supposed to say how much the settlement was and wont. But he did much better than I did and I am the 1 that got hit by a truck not him!
Years ago I saw a guy shat in his hand on a bet and then eat it.
Pretty much sums up this entire situation from any angle you look at it. From the
attorney who will do anything for money to the boneheads who think this kind of
societal mentality is acceptable.
This ain't my Grandparents' America.
Royce, your post forgot to show a photo of Ted Cruz.
Ted Cruz is one of the few voices of reason in the midst of money - will - make - me - say - anything - politicians. Print any statement by him, it will be an idea you cannot logically disagree with. Because of that he is the thing that democrats hate most. An honest hard working man.
2X4s have been 1 1/2" X 3 1/2" for decades. Next they will sue because a six-penny nail isn't made from six pennies.
I have to disagree with you, snakes are good and important part of the environment, they help keep destructive rodents from over taken the world. We just need bigger snakes!
Ted Cruz is one more reason to run for the hills!
I guess I have to ignore this thread!
Disappointed that this site can turn political
At 34 total posts Mike, you just haven't been around long enough So long as we keep the mud slinging to a minimum, the admin lets it ride.