THANK YOU all the engine started ! One more fuel troubleshooting question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: THANK YOU all the engine started ! One more fuel troubleshooting question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Kriegel Mishawaka Indiana on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 03:46 pm:

Well THANKS to so many of you Forum members over the past months, answering questions and giving great advice I - took a non running T with 15 PSI compression, did a lot of work to it and it fired right up ! for 1 second ! So without boring you all here is my situation and I appreciate the last bit of advice hopefully before getting it finished painted running and on the road.

Well music to my old ears Ė the 1926 I put new rings etc in fired right up ! for 1 second !
I need some trouble shooting advice on fuel flow.

First great compression 55 PSI plus on all cylinders

Rebuilt coils 2 by Ron and 2 by Brent

New TW timer getting great spark on Champion X plugs just after TDC All new wiring harnesses

When I put some starter fluid in carb bang ! 1 second running then dies no sputter nothing

Now look at the picture. I CHECKED GOOD Fresh fuel down the line to the carb see the fuel at the top of the 90 degree elbow where the screw driver is pointed (fresh fuel)

Carb is (was ) new rebuilt from Macís 9 months ago ??

Look at the 90 degree union where the screw driver end is pointed . I pulled the fuel line and see the fuel at the top of the 90 degree union After 4 starts of 1 second, the fuel does not go down the pipe therefore eureka I have compression, spark and no fuel ??. How would you all go about trouble shooting this? I told my wife this car will be out of her garage and running by Friday (after all winter and summer in her garage ) Plus I just so;d my good Model T and have nothing fun to drive this weekend



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 03:59 pm:

Stuck float valve. Try tapping on the top of the carb body inboard of your fuel fitting. If it's quiet in the garage you will hear a faint "whoosh" as the valve opens up and the fuel rushes in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 04:02 pm:

Why not open the bowl drain and see if that drains out as well. If not, I might be tempted to open the bowl drain and give the nipple in the pic a quick blast from the air hose to see if I could blow any crud through.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 04:06 pm:

First thing I would do is unscrew the fitting and see if it's plugged.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 04:19 pm:

When Mac's rebuilds a carburetor they install a Grose Jet. They tend to stick either open or closed. Here's how to fix one:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/469501.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 04:22 pm:

Before you do any "unscrewing" put the line back on and open the drain petcock at the bottom of the carburetor. If you have fuel draining out there, the float valve is not stuck, but merely closed because the float is at the top which closes the valve. Presuming that you had fuel flowing in the line when it was unscrewed, that means you are getting fuel to the carburetor. If you have never had this engine running with this rebuilt carburetor, the problem could be the setting of the needle valve. First rotate clockwise as far as it will go. Do not force it. Just turn gently until it seats. Then back off about 3/4 turn. Try again to start the engine using the choke. After it starts turn the needle slowly counterclockwise until it starts to run rough. Then turn clockwise until it runs rough. Set it about halfway between the two rough running points. After the engine warms up, do this adjustment again. The smooth point will probably be about 1/4 turn clockwise from where it was when cold. Next time you attempt to start a cold engine rotate the valve 1/4 turn counter clockwise first. Then as it warms up, turn 1/4 turn clockwise.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 04:59 pm:

What Norm said.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Spencer Vibert on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 07:51 pm:

the Grose jet is probably full of particles


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 08:00 pm:

Why is the spring holding the choke closed?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 09:09 pm:

Ex Trooper - The spring is holding the choke closed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 09:12 pm:

Ha,ha,...screwed THAT up! Meant to say that the spring is holding the choke open! With my "one track mind", I should tell my wife not to talk to me when I'm typing/posting!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 09:14 pm:

Ex, you have a good eye. That could be your problem. There should be a spring built into the carburetor which holds the choke open unless you pull the choke wire or rod. If you need an external spring, it should pull the choke open, not closed.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 09:34 pm:

Norman - You are absolutely right. And that IS the whole problem David. Ex Trooper figured it out, and I just got confused. The engine fires a couple times on the starting fluid, and in so doing, the engine floods itself out from the spring holding the choke in FULL CHOKE position. Hook that spring on the UPPER hole in the bell crank and everything should be fine. Sorry I added to this confusion,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 10:27 pm:

It's not holding it closed. It might not be fully open but when the choke is closed the top arm is forward and the lower arm is up at the level of the shaft. There is a stop on the upper arm as well as one on the lower arm to key it to full open and full closed positions. It is neither.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Monday, September 29, 2014 - 10:33 pm:

In my experience the carbs that are sold on ebay and by some of the vendors as rebuilt are anything but. Most have a new needle and seat and a paint job and that's about it. I get them all the time that were "Just rebuilt." Throttle shafts loose, jet not removed and cleaned, passages not cleaned, etc. Paint is pretty cheap. Take the Grose jet out, throw it as far as you can, put an original needle and seat in it AFTER you resurface or at least check the bottom of the hole it screws into to make sure the gasket will seal, clean all the passages, etc., and it will start up and run fine if you have gas in the bowl.

By the way, I don't do NH's except for special deals like some of the Montana 500 cars. I am so busy with brass carbs that about the only stock T carbs I do are 4 & 5 ball Kingstons and Holley G's. Right now I am 20 or more carbs behind so I'm not looking for business by making the above statement about other "rebuilds."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 - 07:49 am:

Eschew obfuscation...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Kriegel Mishawaka Indiana on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 - 12:01 pm:

Thanks you all again ! I took your suggestions
first, opened the drain valve - no fuel

took off carb and inspected grose jet - seemed to be really stuck solid

opened gas line to carb with bowl off no fuel flow

took out grose jet, opened fuel line plenty of fuel

worked grose jet with wd-40 got it unstuck installed in line fuel filter

hooked it all up and car started right up !

Now to get anew exhaust manifold as the threads are bad and stop two minor oil leaks and it will be running this weekend !!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 - 12:07 pm:

If your grose jet is anything like a couple I had in Model T's, it won't stay unstuck for very long. I took them out and installed original type needle and seat and they work much better. However, it is still a good idea to have a good working fuel shutoff valve between the tank and carburetor and turn it off when you have the car parked. Just in case. Also remember to turn it on when you get ready to start! :-)
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 - 12:20 pm:

Dave - Also, unless you have a fuel pump, you may experience low fuel flow with an in-line filter. Better to use the stock sediment bowl for filtering gas. Many previous threads here recommend not using in-line filters with the stock gravity feed system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John H. Nichols on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 - 03:04 pm:

Stan, you should have given instruction to, Tape a quarter to the grose jet and then one can say, they threw away something.


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