I went to an auction late yesterday afternoon that had a nice '22 Model T dump truck advertised. The cab and roof wood as well as the bed were in great shape. All the windows,doors and latches were on and worked. The steel was solid with only surface rust. The motor would turn very easily with the crank. The only thing I could see missing was the seat springs. Tires were shot but the spokes were good. Needed rewired, tires, tubes, fuel tank (due to rust) I think a radiator (old honey comb on the truck) and coils. A lot of guys there that I tried to talk to but most just grunted and walked away...(You would have thought I ask them to have sex with their daughter) except for one elderly gentlemen in a wheel chair who talked up a storm to all who would listen. It's a shame because I just wanted to learn more about Model T trucks but the grumpy old men didn't want to let out any secrets. I need to start taking a camera with me. I was going to bid but it got out of hand (my thinking anyway) right from the start.
So what would a truck be worth when it only would need tuned up, rewired, a gas tank, radiator, coils,tires and tubes to get it running? I guessed about $3,000.
It had a dump bed with a Carnegie Body built in Cleveland, Ohio.
I was willing to go $3,500 but it sold for $6,500.
Dennis: I have asked a couple of people at auctions why they paid a price for certain items (part of a dissertation for a philosophy class) and it boiled down to I've been looking for one of those for a long time, or I couldn't let the other guy beat me! when you get a couple of bidders that think of an auction as a competition value of the object in question is meaningless.
Only one vehicle at the auction, lots of old car guys in the area plus no other competing events that day can result in a much higher price than what the same truck would bring most other days.
You'll find something just as good for a much better price if you keep your eyes & ears open and can wait for the right opportunity
I think you were spot on Dennis. The only thing "special" about it was the dump body. Tires. new rad, coils. Those alone are in the thousands. Not counting extras. "The engine turned easily". Maybe it's tired too. You did OK keeping your wallet where it was when you walked in. My personal experiences with auctions have never been good. Others seem to do much better but I won't go over my predetermined (by me) price for any thing.
Went to an auction a year and a half ago with some T parts. Most of it went for crazy money. There were two engines there that a buddy and I bid on. I stopped at $75 for each. The reason I did was before the auction I went to use the bathroom at Lowe's across the street. I bought an inspection mirror and a flashlight on my way out the store. Low and behold both engines were cracked. One was cracked beyond doing anything with but I figured the pan, hogshead, trans, and maybe other internals would be worth a $75 gamble.
The guy that bought them gave $425 for one and $375 for the other. I will always take a mirror and light with me from now on as well as a paint stick to mark my stuff with. Those engines were laying on the side that they were for a reason.
Junk wood wheels were bringing $85 each. Imagine my surprise when I bought a NOS 30 X 3 1/2 (never fitted with a hub) with two good clincher rims off the trailer for $30. That wheel was just on the covered bridge tour on a chapter members car.
There was also a guy there shilling up the bid. The moment I saw him bid on anything I was off of it.
If you were single & at a social event ....
If there were a beautiful young woman available ...
If there were a room full of eligible bachelors ...
If the eligible bachelors were all strangers interested in dating the beautiful young woman ....
Do you think they would be receptive to discussing dating strategy with you ?
You are at an auction - competition does not engage in social discourse - they are there to walk away with their prize ....
I'm 36 years old and every show I go to has "grumpy old men"....and someday I'll be grumpy too!
When we do get old and grumpy we should always remember the day we first became interested in Model T's, engines, trains, whatever.
The only way to keep our hobbies alive is through young people!
If not, then all these damn kids will be glued to video games, ipads, and other electronic crap.
Amen Christopher. This topic comes up frequently on here, usually as a tangent to some discussion on keeping the hobby going by involving the young or "will people want our Ts when we're gone?" Cracks me up because I guarantee many who take the time to put their 2 cents in will not take the time to talk to a young person. Lot of great people involved with old cars - but there are a lot of bitter old misanthropes as well and they are KILLING us.
Funny thing is, someone took the time to talk to them, encourage their interest - but they won't reciprocate (and "auction strategy" is a weak excuse). The worst of the grumpy old men are those who will walk up to some kid's pride and joy and start (usually without any invitation or preliminaries), picking it apart for every flaw they can find. Not safety issues mind you, not an attempt to be helpful - but a sad, mean-spirited attempt to paint themselves as "experts."
I have Ts and As - and consider myself a T guy. Sadly, there seem to be more grumps and sharpshooters among the T crowd than the A folks. Just what I've observed over 35 years of being around the hobby.
So to the guilty out there (and you know who you are), be ready to have your beloved ride buried with you - you're doing nothing to encourage future caretakers.
I don't agree with you, Ron. I'm within weeks of my 70th birthday and am delighted to talk with young people. I am far from a T expert, but have spent decades in "modern" cars. Modern cars to me are anything after WW2. I refuse to attend car shows with a cutoff year limit - although I don't like new car trophy winners. When I was a kid, a 10-year-old car was what we could afford. Today it's probably 15. I would encourage any kid to learn all he/she could about the car he/she chose to buy.
Christopher...I think I got your subliminal message. It's already too late!
John - what don't you agree with? Was merely passing on what I have observed for years. From what you described of yourself, you are not the kind of person I am saying is the problem.
I have made some wonderful friends out of Grumpy old men by asking what kind of car they have. So many of us spend a lot of time in the shop and don't have the best communication skills. Often they are lost in thought about a car they are looking at. Take some time with them and you can separate some really nice people from the jerks.
I'll be 73 next month, but I really don't think I'm one of the "grumpy old men", but I have noticed on this forum that some of those grumpy old guys (and maybe a few younger ones too) seem to think that if you like Model T Fords, you CAN'T also like Model A Fords. I really don't understand that. I like all old Fords, up to about 1953. It's kinda' neat to see (and show interested people) how my two '23 T's and my '26 and '27 T's kinda led up to the Model A. My '29 Briggs Town Sedan has a lot of the features that started out on the "new and improved" '26 - '27 Model T. But there are "T" guys that don't like my "modern Ford",....the Model A. My favorite is still and always will be my '27 Model T depot hack, but I like the Model A too. And it's strange, but it seems like there are about as many "T" guys that like (and own) Model A's as there "T" guys that hate them! Is there some regulation that if you're into Model T's, you have to "bad-mouth" Model A's and their owners? Weird! I don't get it,......oh well,......whatever,......harold
I am 69 years old and enjoy talking with people about my T, but have run into numerous folks that act as if i am interrupting their life when I attempt to talk with them .
This was especially apparent at an car show that was run by the shop kids at a local HS.
Near the end of the show three Model A's showed up and when I tried to talk with the the owners they were flippant and would not talk.
At first I thought it was just me but when I stood back I realized that they treated others the same way.
The only thing I could think of was something my mom used to say - " They must THINK their $hit doesn't stink.
It takes just a few seconds to be nice and you never know if your actions or words can make someone's day.
I'm 73 but I try not to be a grumpy old man. I have 4 t's, my wife has a 29 model A roadster which I bought for her. I also own a few brass non ford cars. I am always wiling to show these cars and talk old cars to anyone interested, old or young but in my neck of the woods there ain't many interested.
Dennis, Here I am at my day job.
The thing most of these grumps don't realize is that a lot of guys who try to strike up a conversation possess a lot more knowledge and a lot more vintage iron than the grump.
Years ago we had a club member who enjoyed being a grump. He didn't want his picture in the directory, except the last year he was alive he sent me a picture of himself, a picture of this handsome guy in his twenties. I enjoyed knowing and visiting with Bob Kelley, even though he was a grump.
Down at the farm the local blacksmith, Hubert Dodd, was often a grump. When you asked him how he was he would always say, "terrible, terrible". When you asked him why, he would say, "taxes, taxes" Once I carried a large octagon pry bar that was bent considerably and asked if he could straighten it. He said "No", but when I turned and started to walk off, he said with a twinkle in his eye, "I might be able to unbend it". Hubert has been gone nearly 25 years now, but I have many fond memories of the old grump.
Maybe, we ought to try harder to reach out to some of these old grumps. We might get a story or two to remember.
My old man was Gunny Hartson from Full Metal Jacket. It seems pretty comical now, but as an 8-year-old kid, having a non-stop drill instructor berating, threatening, and even getting violent with you was tough. But it gave me a whole different spin on grumpy old men early on. First of all, there is MEAN ... the kind of personality that is just plain axxhole to the core. A miserable old fukk who can be fun to mess with because he is so predictable. And then there is the grumpy old man. Usually a guy who laments the passing of all the old things he loves and resents the modern BS that "all the kids are into". This guy can be a gold mine of great stories and learning. You just gotta crack the shell.
I bought my Model T for this exact reason. Nothing breaks the ice with these guys like something old and cool to let them know you are of a like mind.
At 69 i can be grumpy! Unless you have walked the mile do you know what you will be like when you turn 70?? Bud.
I enjoy talking to folks at auctions. I just don't talk up something I plan to bid on. As for auction prices, they vary wildly at the same auction depending on who's there. Last week I saw a $49.95 set of Harbor Freight wenches sell for $150. At the same auction there was other stuff they had to sell in a pile to get rid of it, which is something I see often. Having paid too much when I first started going to auctions, I've become very hard-nosed about setting my limit on an item and not going over it.
Harold, I agree with you. I like both the T's that I have and yes, the one lonely Model A. It's fun in its own right, and as I've said before, it's the "dogs car" too, she loves the big back seat and frankly we can't trust her in the open T, plus she'd scratch up the paint getting in.
Jay, here's a pic of my backyard and why I get to be a Grumpy Old Man particularly when the neighbors dog comes over to crap in it almost daily! Won't be a clear pic, had to shrink it to post. sorry
Tim If I had a big back yard like that I would be grumpy because there would not be enough time for my cars.
I have two acres covered with trees. We only removed enough to build the house and and I don't use fertilizer because it makes the grass grow and it would require that I mow it more than three times a year. The only problem is the leaves in the fall but I use a leaf blower to clean out the shrubs across the front of the house and the riding mower to push them into the woods.
This is where bigger picture thinking comes into play. A personal golf course ? Wow. No wonder you are grumpy ! I would be too !
And you did this by choice ? What other kind of torture do you enjoy ?
I am planting my entire property in with native species and returning it to the wild. All the lawn was removed, all the cutesy shrubs
and trees, all the sprinkler system that perpetually needed attention ....
Why anyone wants the burden of a manicured yard is a mystery to me. I want to live in the woods and experience what just comes
naturally. Listening to a lawnmower is like going to the dentist. Not something I purposely set myself up to do twice a week. I have
better things to do with that time, and besides, I like the birds and critters.
I agree. My introduction to this hobby has been spotty because of a preponderance of grumpy old men. My first post here generated a comment of "its a Johnny Cash car" by a well known poster. Not a good intro to this group. But there are also some really nice people here also, probably younger.
The old guy I bought my T from lives 10 minutes away. Has only stopped by once. He had a license plate hanging on his wall that was the correct year and state for my car. Absolutely would not include it with the car. A real hoarder. And I thought the hit&miss crowd was bad.
We live on 11.9 acres out in the country in NYS
and most of it I mowed most of it during the first five years here. For the last five years
it has been cut to 5 acres of mowing. The rest
is for the dear and other critters. It's a lot easier to place a couple blocks of salt for the deer without anybody noticing. My neighbors are great hunters and once every five years, they do a mass drive and shoot everything moving. Then for five years no shooting. The dame wardens will do nothing about it
Shooting dames, are they ?
Around here a game warden can enter your house and check the freezer. You had better have tags to prove that you legally shot that deer. Might seem a little on the big brother side, but we all have laws we follow and hunters aren't exempt.
Fred, once winter ever gets over with, I slap the 60" deck on this yellow & black puppy and the mowing takes just under two hours to do the whole acre and a half. I actually enjoy it. Therapuetic for me.