When I take my foot off low gear, put floor lever forward, the car accelerates quickly - so far all normal - but the car wants to go out of control by turning hard right or left like a bad shackles make the car wobble at slow speed.
I quickly pull back the lever and slow down.
The car also looses control when I slowly come off the driveway curb onto the street and turn right or left, it wants to loose control.
I had bad shackles one time and that was the cause.
This time I have new may west shackles and the car is being rebuilt.
Any thoughts are appreciated. Thank you , Bob
Sure sounds like worn spindle or tie rod bushings. Also check the ends of the drag link for looseness around the balls. Loose front wheel bearings can also be a factor.
Maybe worn kingpins and bushings , or you may need an under axle wishbone .
The steering is tight. Maybe too tight. I put washers in the balls of the drag link and steering ball end of the pitman arm.
I think there are new bushings in the spindles from the guy who started the rebuild who sold it to me.
The man before man was a professional rebuild I on the other hand am not a professional!!!
I do have an under axle wishbone but have not put it on yet. Good thought.
I wonder if the springs are not exactly lined up with the axle? If that could do it if that is so.
You need to adjust toe in.
Toe in? The wheels seem to have too great a canter or toe in. Good thought. I will buy the dvd at Hershey on wheel alignment and see if that teaches me how to do it. Thanks.
Wheel wobble? I had a similar problem once and crooked wheels aggravated to problem. At road speeds it was stable, but between 5-10 mph if you hit a bump it would go into a bad shimmy.
Also while it may have new spindle bushings, are the spindle bolts actually tight in the "eyes" of the front axle. The car I had also had this problem.
Your problem is not unique to you, others have had similar problems.
Too much toe in can be just as bad as too little. Also look at the caster angle ( the tilt to the rear of the king pins).
Robert...have you had the front apart?
Be sure you install the front perches correctly. There is a Left and Right. The perches set the axle at the correct angle to eliminate the wobble. (Although you will get a little wobble in reverse, as we all know)
If they are reversed, you can simply remove the axle and install it the other way. Spindles may have to be changed for speedo gear. Look at the perch where it mates with the top of the axle. There is a heavy boss on the back side. The "boss" is thinner on the front side, giving the axle the proper angle.
PERCH (139.3 k)
The front has been apart and put back together. Again, I am not a mechanic by intuition, in other words, I just tighten nuts and bolts without always knowing the intricacies' of body mechanics - of a car anyway! lol
I do know about the correct perch side - found out the hard way.
If you have to put washers in your drag link, it is time for a complete rebuild.
From loose wheel bearings to a wore out steering column.
Or, don't give any body you love a ride!
Check for a bent wheel. Simply jack up a wheel and set a sledge hammer next to side of the tire it with the handle up beside the tire and spin the wheel. Watch the gap between the tire and handle to see if there is any great change. If the wheel is bent you will see it very easy.
The front has been apart and of course put back together, meaning I do not know how well it was put back together.
The may west shackles did not go in easy. I had to bang them in if that tells you something??
To check the drag link ball end fit:
With the car on the ground, get under the front of the car, get a good grip on the drag link, and try to yank it side-to-side. If you feel any movement at all and hear a clicking sound as it moves, the ball cap on the passenger side of the drag link either need to be sanded down (for small adjustments) or have a shim added (for a larger adjustment).
Once the drag link ball is tight on the passenger side, grab the pitman arm and try to yank it side-to-side. Same deal, if there is any play or clicking, the drag link ball cap on the pitman arm side needs to be sanded down or shimmed.
Steve Jelf has a video showing how to check for worn out or loose spindle bushings, lift the end of the spindle up and down, any clicking indicates excessive clearance.
Thanks Mark, I will try this. I wonder now if I did not need the washers in the ball cap. I put them there because I always had loose steering so I did it because someone on the forum suggested it to someone else. I will try as you said and also try taking them out.
Mark the video you sent is checking for loose spindles. Is this what you meant? I will still try and grip and move the drag link.
Here are the shims if you decide to go that route:
It needs a Chiropractic adjustment. Something is out of alignment.
Do you know anyone in your local area who could help you go through the front end? Someone with experience on Model T's?
It could be a combination of things such as loose parts or too tight parts. Usually the shaking is caused by something too loose, even the ball joint where the radius rod (wishbone) is attached to the crankcase. Use a framing square and check to be sure the bottom edge of the front axle is ahead of the top edge. That is what is called Castor. The castor should be 5 1/2 degrees. Page 45 paragraph 147and 148 of the Model T Ford Service manual. It puts the point of contact with the road behind an imaginary line drawn through the kingpin to the road. The other adjustment of importance is the toe in. Toe in should be between 3/16" and 1/4" The tires should be closer in front than in back. When you check toe in, make a chalk mark or put tape on the tire at the front center of the wheel and measure. Then roll the car so that same mark is in back of the wheels and measure. The reason for that mark is to compensate for crooked wheels. The camber, distance the bottom of the wheel is closer than the top should be approx. 3".
These measurements should be made with the car assembled with body on and engine in place.
If the measurements are off, the car will pull to one side. Sometimes when you try to correct for the pull it will violently pull in the opposite direction.
Anything loose in the front end can contribute to the wobble you are experiencing. I would recommend that you check the drag link first because it is easy, then move on to the spindles (you'll have to remove the front wheels to check the spindles). Once you have checked the spindles and are ready to put the front wheels back on, be sure to tighten the front wheel bearings with as little clearance as possible without binding. The wheel should turn freely enough that the heavy part of the wheel (usually the valve stem) will rotate to the bottom by gravity.
You'll find that when you set the wheel bearing clearance perfectly, tightening the lock nut might make the wheel a little too tight. In that case, you'll have to set the outer bearing a little on the loose side so that you'll still have free rotation of the wheel when the nut it fully tightened. Good luck!
You said you had to pound in the shackles. When you lift the front of the car by lifting on the engine, do the springs and shackles flex freely? Binding shackles and springs can give that shimmy!
Another, "I wonder if that is it Noel.
Thanks again to everyone. At this point I will have to wait till after Hershey to try these things.
Is the axle bent
Many things can contribute to the problem you've got. Therefore, it's difficult for any of us to diagnose the problem through this forum. Most likely, you've got multiple issues. (I would wonder if your front axle is installed backwards, giving you no or reversed caster.) Buying the video is a great step. After that, having an experienced Model T guy examine it for you would be best.
Either way, do NOT drive it again until it's fixed.
BTW, when you start off driving, before you even move an inch, you put the stick all the way forward while holding the clutch pedal in the neutral position with your foot. You then push the clutch down for low, then ease up on the throttle while letting the clutch pedal come back into high. In other words, you shift to high with the foot pedal, not the stick.
I had that problem with my 23 TT, Never did figure it out.
You should check to see if the the spring perches were installed properly?
Right in the Right side and Left in the Left side. Also you might have 2 Rights or 2 Lefts installed.