OT Engine identification

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: OT Engine identification
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Benoit on Wednesday, October 08, 2014 - 04:42 am:

Does anyone know what this is? I couldn't see any markings on it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Benoit on Wednesday, October 08, 2014 - 04:56 am:

One more photo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, October 08, 2014 - 06:56 am:

Andrew,

First, please confirm the photo of the engine was taken in Australia and if not which country it was taken. That should help narrow down the number of different cars or trucks the engine it likely would have come from.

We can also say it is NOT a 1906-1908 Model N, R, S, or SR engine. They also had the cylinders cast in pairs (interchangeable will fit front or back); fixed non-removable heads; mounted to an aluminum crankcase; with the open valve train on the left side; and the removable plugs for installing the valves at the top of the head. That was a fairly common arrangement during that time frame with many cars using it before and after Ford used the design. And of course some companies produced engines for multiple car manufactures so it may or may not be an engine that could have been in more than one type of car.

Also, if you can add some dimensions or estimate of size that may help. Some of the engines were huge (low horsepower compared to today but large displacement) and others looked similar but were smaller. Is it about the same size of the T engine block or much larger or smaller?

And were there any other parts nearby that were likely from the same vehicle? Sometimes they can give the additional clues that are needed.

And it appears someone has already taken the side drive magneto off the mounting pad on the left side of the engine (or perhaps a distributor --- I would guess magneto).

Im sure if it is a USA car engine that someone on here will recognize it. If it was English or other then maybe not as quickly.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Benoit on Wednesday, October 08, 2014 - 08:50 am:

Hi Hap,

Yes, the engine is in Australia. It is similar in size to a T engine. The guy who owns it has a lot of old car stuff, mostly Model T and early V8, but has never been able to work out what this is off. He also has a Lexington car.

I did a Google search and I found someone has previously listed the engine as a 1910-14 Continental.

I can probably take some more photos on the weekend.

Andrew


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Benoit on Wednesday, October 08, 2014 - 08:54 am:

You can't see it in the photos but the exhaust manifold looks a lot like a Model T manifold.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen on Wednesday, October 08, 2014 - 09:04 am:

My guess is a 20 hp Hupmobile motor:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Wednesday, October 08, 2014 - 10:14 am:

Packard is my guess. They used a brass plate for the water tube like that. Seems like Locomobile did too but I cant find a picture.

Rich

Just guessing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, October 08, 2014 - 07:30 pm:

Not Hupmobile. Both the water and exhaust manifolds indicate the timing chain end was on the front of the motor (of course, one or both of the manifolds could have been turned around). Hupmobile, like N, R, S, had the timing chain/gears on the rear of the motor. I cannot tell from the photos where the flywheel was located, or if that cone clutch sitting next to the engine is a part from the same car.
As for the radiator manifold connection? We need to remember that several vehicles (especially trucks like Mack and IHC) in the USA had the radiator behind the engine. Across the pond, in England and Europe, it was even much more common for cars to have the radiator behind the engine.

Andrew B says the owner has tried for awhile to identify this and that it appears to be an early Continental engine (that would indicate a USA vehicle). There was a short discussion on the AACA forum a few months ago about an early Continental engine. I guess I need to go find it. As I recall, nothing definitive was found. Maybe we can do better?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Wednesday, October 08, 2014 - 08:03 pm:

It is a 1910-1914 Continental engine.



(Message edited by Ed in California on October 08, 2014)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Benoit on Sunday, October 19, 2014 - 05:51 am:

Here are a few more photos of the engine. The guy who owns the engines thinks it was a Packard. It's definitely a Model T exhaust manifold, interesting that the exhaust ports line up.














Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Benoit on Sunday, October 19, 2014 - 05:55 am:

He also had this in one of his sheds.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Benoit on Sunday, October 19, 2014 - 06:04 am:

Here is cone clutch that goes with the engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Sunday, October 19, 2014 - 09:36 am:

Neat. A Rajo 4 valve OHV head. Snap that up if you can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, October 19, 2014 - 09:53 am:

The water pipe appears to be copper. I think that was true of engines on several of the early cars, like this Cadillac.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, October 19, 2014 - 04:11 pm:

What I find interesting on that manifold, is that the manifold ports are anywhere near large enough to not leak horribly. I guess, at some point, anything close is close enough. It was probably being used as a stationary engine by the time the T manifold was put on.
I am fairly sure it is not a Packard engine, but I suppose it could be. It has been awhile since I have seen one in person, and goggle was almost no help whatsoever (at least for me).
It very well could be an early Continental engine. I personally have no resources to say ye or nay. If it is, it could be from any of a large number of lesser-known cars or trucks. I would not even be certain that it is a USA engine (without definitive markings or identification). The "Continental" reference (for all I know) could have been that it was from Europe? The USA "Continental" engine at that point in time was a bit of an upstart. Most established automobile and truck manufacturers were using any of several other engines. By the late '10s, Continental was building more engines for more different automobiles than anyone else.

That four-valve Rajo T engine is also a great piece! Between the two, I am not sure which one I would rather have?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, October 19, 2014 - 11:31 pm:

Hap, I was interested by your comment that being in Australia should narrow down the choice of car from which that engine may have come. Rather, I would suggest that this fact would widen the choice. In Australia we had no car manufacturing industry of much consequence. As a result we had numerous makes of vehicles imported from England, continental Europe and the USA. The world was our source, and just as there was a plethora of makers of bodies for Ts in Australia, the same could be said of the makes of cars available. The variety in our Ts amazes our US visitors, and the variety of other makes is equally amazing to them.

Of the Australian built cars, engines of choice were usually Continental or Meadows brands.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, October 20, 2014 - 08:56 am:

Allan,

I agree with you that having the engine located in Australia widens rather than narrows the number of likely cars / trucks the engine would have possibly come from. But in this case, I did not know where the photo was taken, i.e. where the engine is located. And if the photo was taken in the USA I believe it would have narrowed down the search a little (although you can always have the private individual that imported a one-off car into any country).

I'll try to be more careful on how I word things. I had posted, " First, please confirm the photo of the engine was taken in Australia and if not which country it was taken. That should help narrow down the number of different cars or trucks the engine it likely would have come from." And changing the beginning of the second sentence from "That should help narrow down.." to "Knowing which country it came from may narrow down..."

I apologize for the confusion.

Andrew,

If your friend has the Rajo engine as a spare in the shop -- I wonder what engine he has in his T? Or perhaps he is building up a speedster/racer for the engine. That is a very nice looking Rajo engine!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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