Hi all !
As i did not find the answers using the forum search I would like to ask for your help now:
1. How to remove the hup caps of my 1916 tourer to check / add grease on the front wheels ? I tried to turn them manually (in both directions), but no move at all.
2. What anti freeze should be used in the radiator / engine ? I think I have read something here not to use some kinds of modern anti freeze that have components not suitable for veteran cars but cannot find the thread any more.
Thanks in advance,
Joerg,You will need a wrench and they are right hand thread.Do not compleatly fill the grease cup or you will have a mess!You will still need to raise the wheel's off the ground to check! Bud.
Joerg: I'm glad you asked the question about antifreeze because I don't know the answer either.
What I can tell you, though, is don't use the pink stuff. It breaks down pretty quickly. In my "newer" cars (1954 and up) I use the standard green antifreeze and dilute it with distilled water.
I would imagine it works fine in Ts, but those who know will confirm or deny this for us.
Thanks Kenneth and Graham !
As I am from Germany:
- are anti freeze colors standardized all over the world ?
- right hand thread means I have to unscrew anti clockwise, right ?
Joerg & Graham,
Some good information here:
Yes, and you need to use a proper hub cap wrench like this:
Anti freeze colors are standard across the world. The kind you want is ethylene glycol, color is green.
You should mix it to the appropriate strength. 50/50 strength is good down to -20 F. For Joerg that might be necessary and correct. Germany can be a cold place in winter.
Joerg, Just look for standard IAT antifreeze. Works fine. I mix mine at 55% antifreeze to 45% water because it gets incredibly cold here in the middle of winter. No problems with over heating in summer or winter with that mix. You will likely easily get by with w 50/50 antifreeze/water mix. Good corrosion protection as well. By the way, your T is pretty cool!
Joerg,I saw your profile and that is one Sweet 16!!!!!!!! Are there any cobblestones left and how is your T on them? Even if your T has a wp i would mix the anti freeze and water in a pail before adding to your car.Bud.
Remember only the front wheel bearings need grease. Best to remove the wheels and pack the bearings by hand. Trying to pack using the hub cap would only get grease to the outer bearing, and not very well.
The mix of antifreeze depends on what temperatures your car will be exposed to. In a thermosiphon system like the T other then a little for corrosion protection, you should never use more then necessary for freeze protection. The more antifreeze you use the less efficient the cooling system is at removing heat from the engine and the more likely you will have a overheating problem in hotter weather.
In my car I use 25% antifreeze/75% water, that is good down to 10 F. If your car will be exposed to -35 F you may have to go up to a 50/50 mix.
Yup,I guess i have did it wrong for the last 20 year's! When grease comes out the back side of the wheel i have no idea where it come's from?? Tell me please John,How do you pack a ball bearing??Bud.
If you remove the front wheels to examine and/or grease the front wheel bearings, remember that the right hand side is left hand thread.
A strap wrench like this works well to remove the hub caps:
John Z is right about bearings. That is remove & re-pack plus don't fill the hub cap with grease. Royce is dead on about the anti freeze. Not sure about a '16 but later T's definitely had left and right handed threads on the bearing retainer/spindle nuts. The hub caps are anti-clockwise to remove. The Ford wrench is best for removal but their easy to cross thread which might be why yours are un-moveable. take it apart first. Get modern seals. If you end up wrecking the caps make it one order.
So much i don't understand.How do you pack ball bearings? Why would you not put grease in the hubcap/grease cup? Why would you think one would wreck the hub caps/grease cups? What type grease do you use in your other grease cups? Bud.
Another silly trick that often (but not always) works. This really happened at an Endurance Run tech inspection.
The tech inspectors discovered a certain car had a loose front wheel bearing. First efforts to remove the hubcap failed. The funny thing was, at a shop that works on antique automobiles (private collection, few Fords), they didn't have a T hubcap wrench that they could find. The ridiculous thing was, that with more than 20 model T speedsters and race cars in attendance, not one T hubcap wrench could be found. (I have so rarely needed one, that I didn't usually carry one, I have since bought a couple more and keep one in each car).
Now, model T hubcaps have I believe eight small flats on the end. However, the caps tend to be soft metal (even the steel ones) and damage easily. To make matters worse, those flats are tapered slightly which make it very difficult to get ahold of them. A decent original T hubcap wrench fits the cap perfectly, taper and all. You can put a lot of pressure on one and likely not damage the cap. (As added protection on nice hubcaps, I usually use a shop rag between the cap and the wrench, because of the taper, they usually still fit tight and work well.)
But what to do with no wrench handy? The axle was already up on a jack. So, as I was standing around, I said, "Let me try". I kneeled down, gave the wheel as fast a spin (clockwise to me) , then grabbed the hubcap with both hands as tight as I could. Rats. Spun again, hard. Grabbed the cap again, hard. Not yet. I believe it was the fourth try, the cap broke loose, and spun right off the hub. Bearing was tightened. Cap replaced, and tightened using the same plan in reverse. No harm at all to the cap.
An interesting, but short, discussion followed. Was it the clamping pressure from my grip vs torque of the spinning wheel that broke the cap loose? Or was it that the heat from friction the first three tries that expanded and loosened the cap? I don't know, and I don't care. I just know that that trick has worked for me several times over the years. Both on the road, and at home when I couldn't find my hubcap wrench.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Guys - Thank you for asking the question. I have only put water in my radiator since I have had it (Oct /13 till now). I am in the midst of getting a new radiator since the one I have leaks like a seiv. It will get a 50/50 mix for the first drive. thanks again.
Hubcaps on the front wheels should be at least 1/2 full of grease.
If you use anti-freeze, and you have a shiney radiator, it will stain the brass, and it doesn't come out easy. I use water soluble oil in mine.
As far as the hub caps, the threads are the same for all four wheels. If you wish to put grease in them, thats up to you.
Thanks again to all for the helpful advice.
I now did some research and here in Germany it should be blue coloured IAT type (anorganic) and 50/50 will be fine down to -34 degrees Celsius.
As I do not have the wrench for the hup caps either I will give Wayne's method a try.
Had another short trip today with the top set up - I am afraid, mothball time is getting close ...
I don't think putting grease in the hub cap is a bad idea but also don't think it will do anything for your bearing. If the bearing is well packed with wheel bearing grease (the stringy stuff) it should stay in place. If anything at all it will migrate out outward and deposit itself in the hub cap, but I don't think it will re-enter the bearing race from the hub cap.
Not knowing how to pack a ball bearing i use a soft cup grease and i pack/refresh with the grease cup.If i had modern seals and roller bearings hand packing with a modern hi quality grease would be my choice.If you have good seals oil is best as large truck's and trailer's run on oil! One thing sure my soft cup grease will not dry out and harden leaving my bearings dry!What was done 100 year's ago? Bud.
Ford Owner's Manual
Most questions on the Ford for the owner is in it, get a copy for your Ford or your mechanic
" ...keep the hub well filled with grease." Grease inside the hub cavity and inside the hub cap.
Bud, to answer, 100 years ago. Catalog page 1913 on auto parts, here is the compression cup (dope cup) grease offered. Albany brand, Grade 2 for summer use
Today any good quality bearing grease will be fine for the Ford, my favorite is this one, it's for all foreign cars too, just right as the Ford is the Universal Car.
Hubcap wrenches are everywhere in the U.S. You shouldn't have to pay over $5 for one. Check out ebay.
Graham make a good point which I don't think is mentioned elsewhere.
Its important to use distilled (or if you can't get it - deionized) water. Over many years the dissolved salts in tap water will create scale on the cooling water passages and deposits in the radiator that can be all but impossible to remove completely.
Distilled water is cheap and easily available. Cheapest insurance you can buy for your T's cooling system!