Bought this block years ago with the manifold on so I did not know about the rear port. Dose anyone know someone the could spray weld and build up the rear port and manifold face? Has anyone had this done to a block? It's a late 13 with proper casting date an number.
Crow Custom Cast Welding
I think they are in Chippawa Falls, MN
They saved my 1911 block, which had more damage at #4 port than yours.
Yes, we have blocks fixed like that all the time.
They are sent to a store in the Arnold Motor chain here in Iowa in Nevada, Iowa
They use Brass. They have been in business about 100 years.
DONT weld it. It will crack again some where close. The heat from the port will be your biggest problem. Have a machine make a bushing and install like a hard seat. Scott
Hmmm, l have an early 13 block with the opposite, perfect ports, rusted out valve seats and centre web.
What about that, is that fixable?
Scott I do not think that it has enough metal left to machine where a bushing be possible. There is a steam passage in the corner of the block that by the time cut the hole round I would be into. Herm, I highly respect your work, can they build up the inside of the port around the steam vent? I have some of these, I think they are a seat out of a foot valve of an oil well, very hard material. I thought about brazing one in the hole. But, this will do nothing for thin area around the steam vent.-- I do not know how thin it is but my guess is it's not too good. And I don't know how it would handle the heat and cooling from exhaust. I got one shot at this and I need someone with experience. Dose anyone know anyone that can spray welding and would it work in this application?
This is slightly OT, but I wonder about the rusted-in freeze plugs. Will they have to be drilled out? Lang's catalogue doesn't say what material is used for the replacement plugs, but from the low price I'd guess iron or steel. Wouldn't a non-rusting material like brass or nickel be better?
Have it cast iron welded by someone who has experience- If they want to use an arc welder- run fast- regardless of what they tell you. It can be torch welded with cast iron rod after the block is brought up to temperature, and it wont crack if done properly and cooled slowly. There are several good shops around, but I'm in Ca. Trent recommended one. If you have any other repairs needed, now would be a good time to have those dealt with also.
Brass is not acceptable for exhaust port repair. The 2 metals will expand and contract at different temperatures and in time will fracture.
The best way is to find a real cast iron welder and weld the hold up with cast iron rod. Once the hole is welded, set the block on my milling machine and recut the ports to their correct size.
The problem in not the guy welding or the rod. It is the fact that cast iron WILL crack when welded. You can find a guy with a cnc mill who can make a bushing to fit. and brazing the around the steam vent is the way to go. I have just had my C block brazed up in the exhaust ports as the last guy got carried away with his porting job. The block now has 1.750 diameter valves. If you try to weld the block you need to get the whole block over 400 and you will lost the babbit. welding cast iron is the last think you want to do. But you will find some hot shot who just wants your money and fill you with a cock and bull story about who good he is. Its your block and money so do as you please. Scott
The first picture is of the sleeves which were turned for this application and the second is of one being placed. They don't even need to be welded in place. Just a snug fit and the manifold will keep them tight. You can use the regular manifold gaskets or the copper rings on them.
Scott, cast iron won't crack when welded, IF it is done correctly. Dan McEachern is correct. I've seen the results of good shops many times over the years. It is an art, to say the least. JMHO. Dave
I had cast iron welding done on my '10 block over 30 years ago and it never cracked. The secret is to get the whole block up to the right temperature, weld with similar cast iron rod and then let it cool down slowly over a week or more. The fellow who did mine set the block in a coke fire and covered the whole thing with an asbestos blanket. When he had the right temperature he did the welding under the blanket and left it under the blanket until it all cooled down to room temperature. It was expensive but a lot cheaper than a good open valve block!
If they are not to bad,A chevy valve seat will fix them
Val, the God of all welders here used a slightly different technique. He had a hearth of fire bricks on which he placed the block to be welded. Then he built an igloo of fire bricks over it. Through a hole in the base, he would fire up a large gas burner first thing in the morning to heat the block. Late in the afternoon, he would take down part of the igloo he needed to to do his welding, rebuild it when finished, and then turn the gas down low. It would be turned off next morning, and the whole thing allowed to cool off until the next morning.
He did a magic job replacing the rear web in a 1912 block and fixing up a patch in the bore and pan rail on my spare 1913 block.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
When my father welded cast iron back in the day, he built a hearth of fire bricks, and pre heated the part for several hours with a propane weed burner. Before he preheated the cast iron part he cleaned the crack well and then to stop further cracking he drilled a small hole at each end of the crack. He used actual cast iron rod and a gas torch. After the weld was finished he let the part cool wrapped in fiberglass insulation.
crow cast welding is in
Hudson Wisconsin. Buck, the owner is highly regarded as one of the best. almost all antique motors in his shop, very old, very large, very expensive boat motors that have been frozen with water in them, the pieces missing, and when he is done you can not see the repair. spray weld looks like cast iron, but is slightly harder. hard enough for valve seats when doing deck repair like he did for me on a model B block. machine shop service as well. blocks are heated in an oven to about 600, then welded, and back in the oven for slow cool down. nothing cracks-ever phone number is 866 535 5468. keep trying, its a one man shop, and its not cheep
Thanks to everyone for your help. I called Crow as Trent suggested, I think, they are just what I'm looking for. As I understand, they do spray cast welding and will be able to build up the afflicted areas. Not cheap, but I need a 13 motor. It will be a week or so before get to tear it down, but I'll keep you posted with pictures. Thanks again for your help, Bob
One other solution for a block that has a valve seat or exhaust/intake port that is damaged like this one would be an overhead valve head. If the rest of the block is sound, the OHV head eliminates the valve seats and ports in the block. Yes I know that it is expensive to get an OHV head and it might not be everyone's cup-of-tea, but it does allow you to use a block that otherwise might not be usable.
I watched Mike Huebner, now retired, weld my 24 cast iron block which he then machined. He made his living welding cracked blocks and heads of diesel engines for many years. The block has to be hot, welded and then cooled very slowly so that it remains soft gray iron. Val is right on with his post.
The later blocks are pretty thin in the manifold area. From the picture it seems early blocks look like they might be a touch thicker.