Pulley Damage

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Pulley Damage
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By P. Jamison on Monday, October 20, 2014 - 10:53 pm:

My '24 roadster wouldn't hand-crank, so I removed the lower pulley and found the problem. I wonder how that happened?

Phil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Monday, October 20, 2014 - 11:18 pm:

I wonder how the guys arm felt after it kicked back. Or is that piece peeled back in the wrong direction for it to be kick back. Is the spring on your crank strong enough to assure it can't attempt to engage the pin when the motor is running?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 08:41 am:

I've been told these pulleys eventually work loose, that hub metal is fairly soft too. Plus, at least in my case on one of my cars, the pin is just a wee bit sloppy, I've tracked down this occasionally "cling cling cling" noise I've been recently experiencing to that. Maybe that's what happened on yours too. Looks like I better get on it quick before I maybe end up in the same boat. And being a '15 I have no elec. start option like you do P.!! :-) Thanks for the post! This'll get my procrastinating butt off the procrastinators pillow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 08:46 am:

PJ, to my eyes that is the wrong pulley for a 24 model. Our Canadian sourced cars had the large pulley which was a casting. That one appears to be a small steel pulley. Perhaps the answer for you is to fit the correct pulley in place of that damaged one.

Hope I am correct.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 09:57 am:

I've seen plenty of worn ones, but not like that. When the center is no good, some people cut it out and weld in a piece of pipe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 10:16 am:

Hand crank was hanging down and got caught on something for just a bump... ws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 03:56 pm:

Steve:

What is the correct inner diameter of the pulley ?

Have similar problem with extra sized holes that the starting pin passes, also pulley fits sloppy on crankshaft.

Steel insert ??? and drilled for pin ???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 05:03 pm:

I have a repair for the small steel pulleys, but not the larger cast ones.

I bought some heavy walled tubing from a local supplier which is somewhat larger in the OD than the centre of the original pulley. I put the pulley in the lathe and machine the old centre out to suit the OD of the tube. A short length of the tube is then welded into the pulley from the back. It is a simple task to machine the weld flat and then bore the centre to suit, even making it slightly smaller to fit worn crankshafts. I drill the holes for the pin using the snout of a broken crankshaft for a guide.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 05:47 pm:

Bob, I just measured the front ends of a couple of crank shafts and got 1.180" and 1.183". I've never examined various sizes of pipe and tubing for something close to that, but there's probably something readily available. Or you can buy a new pulley for $130 or $140 depending on which one you need.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 06:04 pm:

Or for us non-purists - an aluminum pulley with roll pin & clamp screw is a viable option for a worn crank snout !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 07:10 pm:

Steve T. The only problem with the roll pin is "IF" it works loose, and being made of hardened steel, It will cut the "snout" off your oil pan. I used a standard pin on my aluminum pulley. After installing the pin in it, and making sure the cotter pin hole was pointed straight forward. I then drilled all the way thru the cotter pin hole and all the way thru the aluminum pulley. I then insert a cotter pin thru the hole in the pin and pulley, and bend the ears over on the back side of the pulley. There is plenty of room. You can also drill a second hole thru the other end of the pin and pulley if you want too. I also "match mark the pin and pulley so as to be able to re-install the pin in the same location, if later, for some reason you need to remove it for some reason.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 09:08 pm:

Steve:

Appreciate your time in checking crankshaft diameters..... owing lack of competent machinist in the neighborhood, the new pulley is my option... will order from Snyders.

Used the " non-purist - an aluminum pulley with roll pin & clamp screw " version, scrapped that one for not running true and the roll pin was a "bitxh" to install & remove


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 09:11 pm:

Steve:

Appreciate your time in checking crankshaft diameters..... owing lack of competent machinist in the neighborhood, the new pulley is my option... will order from Snyders.

Used the " non-purist - an aluminum pulley with roll pin & clamp screw " version, scrapped that one for not running true and the roll pin was a "bitxh" to install & remove


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 - 11:52 pm:

Fellows, am I missing something? Our large pulleys to suit the wide snout pan are cast iron. They have holes cast in the rear face and break rather than tear like the one PJ shows in his photo. His must be steel, like the small pulleys from the narrow snout pans. Or do US cars have small and large pulleys of steel?

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 12:08 am:

Allan, I just checked a box of pulleys (2 small, 8 large) and all of them are pressed steel. The cast ones must be a Canadian product.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 12:13 am:

Unless the hole in your crank is way enlarged there is noway in heck the rolled pin is going to work out! Let me tell you the 4 that I have installed were no joy, them suckers go in very tight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 01:12 am:

Thanks Steve, I have never seen a large steel pulley. Something else learned today. I will have to check out the pulley on my US import Tudor when I replace the stripped fibre timing gear.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 03:06 am:

That's interesting Allan, I've never seen a cast iron one, all have been steel, large or small.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 03:58 am:

I had my pulley come lose on a tour, made a heck of a racket.... pulled the radiator, popped a beer, peeled off part of the can and used it as a shim. Easy to drive the pin back through the can. It's been tight over 20 years....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 04:35 am:

I stand corrected, the one on my 26 is cast iron, the Canadian parts book doe's list the early one as steel but no listing on what the big pulley was made of. Cast it will be then.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brendan Hoban on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 04:57 am:

22 T touring, no starter.

My pulley was loose so I purchased an after-market clamp-on pulley and fitted it.

It stopped the rattle but I found that the crank dogs only "just" engaged the new roll pin and would frequently slip off.

Thinking that it was my worn crank dog I purchased a new one only to find it was worse, it would not catch the pin at all.

So I am now back to the old crank dog, the new pin and care that it is engaged fully before the "pull."

Has anyone had a similar experience with modern parts, or a solution to this problem?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J Williams on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 08:18 am:

You could use a round file on the crank dog and get it to mesh
With the crank pin better that's what I would do


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 08:49 am:

Brendan, if you mean modern parts in general and not just pulleys, yes, failure to fit is all too common. You can count on reproductions from Larry Smith, R.V. Anderson, and John Regan to be right. But not all the folks who make new parts are that careful. An example is the brass timer plate that's too small. Another is the grind-and-file-all-day-to-make-them-fit brake shoes. The current ones are better, but the ones available for many years were notorious for requiring lots of alteration.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 08:54 am:

After replacing the top fan pulley on my 26 I found that the slightly larger OD meant that the timing belt was installed piano wire tight. After running this car on the first day of the Nevada tour this summer the strain on the lower original pulley was so great that the pulley broke leaving the center piece surrounding the crank intact but the rest totally free. By sheer luck I was able to find a welder who rejoined the two pieces. There was a fellow who lives in the Nevada area who helped me. If he reads this please contact me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 10:30 am:

Donnie B. - I've run the aftermarket aluminum pulleys using the roll/tension pin they came with for over 20 years and never had one move ! I only use the ones that are manufactured by a fellow who frequents this forum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 01:19 pm:

The reason the hand cranks are off is the pan snout is out of alignment with the center of the crank shaft. Very few that you don't have to bend, maybe 1 or 2 out of a hundred.

So if your crank hang's up, that is what can cause it.

3/8's roll pins have worked fine for me for 48 years of building pans. They are .010 to .015 over size, and I can't use them like that, so I anneal them and drop the size to the hole size I need, plus the press fit.

If the hole in the crank is to far gone, we drill and press a plug in and drill to the size we, normally back to Std.

The pulley and holes you show can be rebuilt, if you wanted, and a new belt crown put on.

I have always just used brass.

Herm.


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