Hello all ,
I just brought some lights for my 1926 T project and I think they are for an earlier model .
It's a shame they are in good nick .
Please let me know your thoughts cheers Bill
The headlight bar is for the 1926/27 but the lights are not. The mounting system to go on the light bar is much closer and uses a short carriage type bolt with cupped washers for mounting. https://www.modeltford.com/item/6504X.aspx
Thanks John ,do you know what year they are from ? I will ask around maybe someone has a set to swap .
Your lights are 17 to 25. The bar is late 26-27. The early 26 headlights are stem mounted but have a "foot" where it attaches to the fender. They attach with 2 carriage bolts. Early 26 has no bar. Then there was a bar that came out that mounts under the "foot" of the headlight sometime in 26. It is an adjustable style bar. Some believe it to be an accessory bar, but some believe Ford made the adjustable bars. Then in late 26 possibly for the 27 models they came out with your type of bar and the headlights mount with a single carriage bolt to the bar. The headlights have a somewhat flat u-shaped mounting bracket on the bottom of the light. The bar was added by Ford to have a place to attach the license plate to. The police departments were complaining that the license plate was hidden behind the bumpers and could not be seen. So Henry added the bar and moved the license up, so it could be seen, and it also strengthened the fenders. It will depend on other features of the body and also the engine date as to which set would be correct (if correct matters to you)
I forgot to mention. If the lens is a clear flat glass, it is pre 1921. I believe the H lens came out in 1921. Im not at home so Im going on what little memory I have left. The headlights themselves are 17 to 25.
Where is the adjusting screw? 9:00 or 12:00? Dan
I just checked the screw is at 12 o'clock
The headlight buckets may be 17-21. The stem, at the mount, doesn't have the "wedge" that came out in 22.
1915/16 if the screw is at 12
That us what I was thinking, 15/16 lights. Worth more that a pair of 26 lights. Dan
Do 1915-6 lights have the two angled flats on the stem where they go through the fender iron? I was under the impression that they had one flat, at right angles, like the fork mounts.
Is this another Canadian thing?
Allan from down under.
Maybe as you say Allan a Canadian thing, top parts list 1916 USA 6511X, bottom 1916 Canadian 6511-1/2 with the flats, mine has the flats on both sides making them interchangeable left/right.
Far as I know (off the top of my head), all the early (12: o'clock adjusting screw) headlamp buckets I have ever had had flat sides on both sides (to fit both right and left early fender irons). I don't know when they changed to the tapered mounting on the bottom, but I know that the flat sides continued for a short while after the adjusting screw was moved to the side (I have had several of those through the years also).
A real good study of the lamps timeline would be a good thing for someone to do. There were at least seven major headlamp changes between the beginning of 1915 and 1919. I have heard so many conflicting opinions from self-proclaimed experts (many of them people with very good reasonings), that I know much of what I thought I knew is wrong.
I find the headlamp pictured by Bill V very interesting. If it does in fact have the adjusting screw at the top of the bulb socket, it is an anomaly I don't think I have seen before. Except for one where the post had been changed (not original rivets).
Always more interesting stuff.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
My lights look like the ones on the bottom of the page more photos posted .
The focus screw is at the top of all the headlamps from 1915 through 1918.
Thanks for the info looks like I will have to keep searching for some 26/27 lights .
The main question for me is why is there a double angle (V shape) at the bottom of the stem where it goes thru the fender iron.?? If 1915-16, it should have a square shoulder. The main reason I said 17 to 25 was that the lights have the double angle (V shape) at the bottom of the stem. The focus screw issue, brings up a problem.??? Are these Canadian, or maybe an aftermarket set.??? Western Auto, Montgomery Wards, ect made 1000s of parts for the Ts as aftermarket parts. Western Auto did a publicity stunt where they totally built a car from their own parts. Can you see Ford script anywhere on the lights. ?? One other thought Ive had, is could these be a transitionial light. The very last of the 1915-16 buckets, used on the very first of the 1917 stems. Another example of "use up the last of the parts".???
Bill and others,
I believe it is too earlier to tell for sure, but I believe evidence is surfacing that Ford of Canada probably continued using head lamps with the focus screw above the socket rather than to the side of the socket longer than the USA production. I asked Greg Whaley in an e-mail if the new probably original 1922 Canadian touring that he had recently purchased had the adjusting screw above or to the side of the socket that held the bulb. His answer was at http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/488918.html?1414347397 was “Yes.” One headlamp had the adjusting screw to the side and the other had the adjusting screw above the socket! I tried looking at some photos of Canadian cars to see if the location of the adjusting screw was visible or not. On most of the photos I looked at the adjusting screw was not even in the photo – i.e. you couldn’t see the back of the headlamps in that shot. In the couple that I could see the back of the headlamps I could not see the location of the adjusting screw.
Note, we have so much more to discover about the differences between the USA production and production in other parts of the world. For example, the backing plates on the rear axle were redesigned and included additional reinforcing ribs for USA production later in 1915 (added in Oct 1915 ref http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/P-R.htm#rax2 ). But Canadian production continued to use the earlier style without the additional reinforcement well into the 1921. See: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/121088.html for that discussion.
So a favor to ask of our Canadian Ford owners, “Would you please check to see what style of headlamps you have?” I.e. flange lower mount or tapered? Focusing screw above the socket or at 9:00 to the socket as you look at it from the rear? Ford script anywhere on the lamp body or bracket? Any other identifying marks on the lamp or bracket? Also please add approximate year and if you are not sure, fairly sure, or really sure that the headlamps are original Canadian for the year of your car.
Thank you to every one that can help us better understand when Ford of Canada introduced the focus screw at 9 o’clock and when they discontinued it at 12 o’clock.
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Hap,I checked all of my cars except my 24 Tarrant tourer. All have the focus screw at 9 oclock. Not all have the same stem. Most have two angled sides to the flange where they mount in the fender irons. One, however has straight sides on the flange!!!
I cannot recall ever seeing a Ford script anywhere on a headlight,including the rim, unlike your US ones.
If I find any differences I will mote them for you.
Allan from down under.
Thanks so much! The only Ford script I can remember seeing was on some headlamp rims and at least two of the brackets that are riveted to the headlamp shell. E-bay once had a set of "Ford" script spurs that had been made from those brackets. And they had "Ford" script on them.
Please confirm that is a sample size 3 cars and 6 headlamps. Thanks for all your help and support. Or if that is wrong -- please let us know how many headlamps.
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Royce, being the inquisitive type, that means the cars up through '18 still had one flat for the headlight to seat upon?
Hap, the unrestored original 1924 tourer I dragged home in July last year. I suspect the LH light is a replacement. It has a thicker neck, for 1/2", near the bucket mounting flange.
My unrestored original 1925 D & F roadster brought home a few months ago.
My 1917 restored shooting brake.
My 1920 restored roadster pickup.
Anthony's restored original 10cwt lorry.
A chassis stored in my parts pile.
A pair of lights removed from a project I bought years ago.
I have not had a chance to visit my restored original 24 tourer to check it.
Gee Alan that's one heck of a collection ,you wouldn't have two 26/27 lights laying around the shed ??
Ps would love to see them all .
Bill, I have some really nice stalk mount 26 lights. These are type with the stalk and the flange which bolts to the two holes in the fender. Later a bar was added under the flanges, and then the lights were altered to bolt through the bar, rather than to the fender.
Be aware that the stalk type 26 light I believe come in left and right side, the difference being the bucket has a different orientation to the stalk. I think this is because the stalk is at less than 45 degrees to upright, so swapping sides is not on, unless you dont mind the rims being cocked and the lens flutes not being vertical!!!
Let me know if you are interested, and I will remove them from my Bendigo Swapmeet stock, the swap coming up on 14Nov.
Hope this helps, Allan from down under.
Hi Allan I have sent you a private message let me know if you receive it ta Bill
None of the lights pictured in this post are for a 26-27. There are two types made for 26-27 the earlier ones have a flange which bolts to the fender and the later ones have a bolt to the hole as shown in the picture of the bar which goes between the fenders. If you use that bar, you need the later with the bolt If you don't have the bar, or your bar does not have those holes, you use the lights which bolt to the fenders.
These photos will help.
1926 Early Headlight
1926 Late Headlight
1926 Single Headlight
Thanks James I am looking for the later lights cheers Bill
Thank you for adding the additional details. Sometimes if the puzzle pieces from one box get put in another box it makes it more challenging. Or in this case if information from one year or year range production being placed in another year range it can throw us off a little.
At the moment, with very little data, it appears that Canadian lights were similar to the USA as far as the focus screw location. I.e. the earlier lights had the focus screw at 12 o'clock and later lights at 9 o'clock.
See: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/hl23.htm for those early fender but still had a stem mounted headlamps and two of the cross bars used with them – earliest on left and later on right all before the standard 1926-27 style were finally adopted.
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June 1926 Canadian headlamp:
That focus screw position also determines the beam pattern horizontal position, which is way off for those early 1926 headlights.
Actually that should have been an early recall, not just a change.
The change was made rather late in the 1926 Model Year and for a different official reason.
APRIL 19, 1926 Letter from the Chicago branch
“The Police Department has called to our attention the fact that our license brackets obscure the license place on all cars equipped with bumpers.”
“In order that we may comply with the law, our headlamps are being changed so that when assembled to the car, they are fastened together with a tie rod which will make the lamps and fenders more rigid and will change the position of the license plate so that it will not be covered by the bumpers.”
“This change will go into effect in the very near future. We are giving you this information in advance in order that you may take care of your stock order accordingly.”
Hap: I had time today to look at my light stash. I had 16 lights. The break down is as follows,
4 early with shoulder, Ford script, and screw at 9:00 o-clock
3 early with shoulder, No script, and screw at 12:00 o-clock
9 late with V mount, 7 with script and 2 without script, screw at 9:00 o-clock
5 of my lights did not have script and the other 11 did. So the bulk of my lights have script. I also have about a dozen stem/brackets that were saved from junk lights. All of them were script. I was saving them to make "spurs" out of. I must have seen the same e-bay auction you saw.
Hap, just an additional observation or two. I have never seen the Ford script shown on the stem in Donnie's photo on our Canadian sourced cars.
Also, the flat at the back of the buckets I have seen, but only on 15 fork mount lights and some 1916 lights. All others I can recall were rounded all the way.
On the fender mounted 1926 lights with the flange, the focus screw is rotated when the light bucket is fixed to the stem. The lights are the same, left and right, but when bolted in place the focus screw on the left light is at 10.30 and on the right at 7.30.
Whether the globe orientation is altered within the globe holders to accommodate the correct alignment of the globe filaments is a moot point. My instinct is it was not considered.
May this shed a little more light.
Allan from down under.