I have a new day timer and would like to replace it. What pointers would you suggest in making my selection?
Keep the New Day! What is wrong with it? Or is it one of the new type? If I was going to put a new one on it would be that new brush type. Or find a good used New Day.
The repro. New day timers are junk. I would install a TW carbon brush timer. They are very simple, have no moving parts except the carbon brush, and are self-lubricating.
You can make a carbon brush for a New Day and have the same thing with the same number of moving parts. I wish I could have carried my experiment out to completion with the "S" type ND and carbon brush, if it weren't for a fan belt gone wild...
Stephen is correct about the repop New Day timers being junk. They are made from softer material that wears rapidly..
The original New Day timers say "No Oiling" on the timer case. These are the good ones. I buy them whenever I can at swap meets.
The TW carbon brush timer is a great option too. Looks like the original and performs much better.
At this point we do not know which New Day he has or why he is replacing it. If it's a good old type and has not be resurfaced too many times that can be done at home with a few tools. Even a new carbon brush can be made with some sandpaper and a small drill for the spring hole. The slide pin can be left out, it's makes it more convenient to install but is not really needed for operation.
Part of the problem with the "S" type times was the use of the wrong material for the brush, if they had used carbon instead of the hard starter brush material they might have stood up.
There have been a few issues while driving. The current one is that I can only get the #3 coil/cylinder to fire. I have verified that there is good power to all coils, I have tested and inspected all wiring to the timer. I have also been able to get all coils to buzz when grounded. There is continuity from coils to all spark plugs.
Upon opening the timer, this is what I see. Previously (2 months ago) the inside of the timer did not have the deep groove. Upon closed inspection the spring that is in picture # 1 has many broken off fragments inside of picture # 2 & 3.
The material of the timer "feels" like a cheap plastic/composite type of material. I will see if I can get a picture of it as well.
Do I need the modern neoprene seal if I get a carbon brush timer?
It's difficult to tell from you photo, but it does appear you have a repro New Day.
Yes, that New Day is now toast. Appears the brush spring let go, that let the bronze brush loose, and the brush housing has now ground a deep groove in the plastic and metal contact segments.
The repro New Day do work, but not real long life. You can replace it with another repro rather easy. No other extra effort.
As for the modern seal, if no leaks, keep the felt and the brass shield now there. What ever you do, don't remove the brass shield with a New Day, as the revolving housing for the brush with grind up the exposed felt and cause a big mess with ignition miss too.
Here is the repro New Day made now, its a dark almost black plastic housing. The material is not as tough as original but will last for a season or two, maybe more.
Ford roller on left, New Day repro middle, Anderson on right....
Lots of discussion on New Day ID, brushes, repops, etc., with pictures:
Scott, as long as the felt is not leaking and the brass shield is not chewed up I would leave it alone. Take the shield off and make sure that it is too big to fit into the timer. If it is worn small enough to fit inside or is getting close replace it and the felt with a modern seal.
I do not understand where the felt and brass shield that you are speaking of comes into play or fits?
Good photo Scott, shows the problem with your brush very well. The felt is the fluffy stuff that is poking out between the cover and cam shaft. There would have been a brass shield that fit in the recess behind the edge of the timer and looked like a big thin washer with a bump in it.
It looks like something like a washer is there.
Scott, you have no brush left and the timer contact area needs facing off if the grove cut in it is not to deep. KGB
The timer with "Pat'd" is the old style from my understanding. Make yourself a new brush out of an old generator brush, should be about 1/2 inch tall then clean up the old case. There may be a washer behind the brush holder to take up space because the brush it's self was warn out and was not making contact so now the brush assembly is riding on the case instead of the just the brush. Or buy a new timer, get rid of the washer install the new type seal and go for a drive.
Is there a source for New Day replacement brushes other than our suppliers? My New Day is doing a FANTASTIC job but the brush is showing wear....Thanks....Jerry
Make your own, read above posts. Watch ebay is your other choice.
I'm running a New Day timer, it's great. Like Keith says, your brush is gone. I went to a modern seal and the timer stays nice and dry. New Day timers and brushes come up on ebay all the time. Or just make a new brush from a carbon brush. PK
Yours is missing the brass shield, it should be there to keep felt from getting to the timer rotor.
To remove the 'remains' of your busted New Day rotor, remove the hex lock nut off the end of the cam.
Then pry off the retainer collar washer, and you will find too a tiny head lock pin that holds the timer rotor to the camshaft. Pull that pin, then remove the rotor.
Pictures shown are with a Ford roller timer, but the detail is the same. A new felt washer can then be fitted, and replace the brass shield.
The new brass shields are made too small. They will not fit in the timer as they are, but they are just barely big enough. Also, they are too small for the timer recess to hold them in place so the hole in the middle of the shield may rub on the camshaft and put brass dust into the timer. I would either try to find a good original shield or install a modern seal.
The problem of the new brass plates being too small is nothing new. It seems I've been reading about it for years. Why hasn't this been corrected? Surely by now the maker can't plead ignorance.
Don't have any trouble with the brass shields.
The aren't supposed to fit in the timer but lay in the recess of the front plate.
And...that front plate needs to be centered to the cam with a tool, it's necessary to have concentric rotor inside the timer case.
These pics show a repro shield fitting just fine.
Happen to personally not use the shields, as the modern seal goes in with a rebuild, and centering the front plate with the tool. Use a Anderson flapper timer too, instead of the Ford roller type. Works best with less fuss, no routine oil, clean, or grease
The New Day is best for older engines with loose cam bearings, or unknown front plate install, where the front plate may be offset, as without proper tool, that plate can let the roller or flapper rotors be out of circular alignment to the timer case.
The front facing brush rotor of the New Day makes for allowance of out of place front plates or wobbly camshaft, as it does not rely on concentric settings within the rim of the timer case, as the New Day contacts are on the front face of the timer case.
Scott, You asked so I have to respond with my pointer.
Replace your ND with an ETimer and you'll never have to open it up again.
Another good choice, in my opinion, is an Anderson style from Tip Top Timers.
Also check out the new style brush that TW Components is making. It looks like a really great improvement.
+1 on the TW Timer - I have a high tension magneto now but if I was going to run a timer, that'd be the one I'd use.
Scott, I found some New Day timer bodies on Ebay. Look for the reddish ones. I got two for a reasonable price.
So I have the new parts. Was The washer supposed to be the brass shield? If I pull the felt how do I put the modern seal in? If I try to put the washer back on the Cam will not so the pin lines up.
I know I'm making this more complex than it is.
Your set up is missing the brass shield.
Suspect that the washer with cut side, shown beside your brush for the New Day, was placed first over the felt that is there around the front plate hole for the camshaft to prevent the brush rotor from rubbing on the felt.
But also suspect that that thick washer with its cut side pushed the brush too far forward, and then the light spring of behind the brush was compromised, and the brush was stuck out too far and wore out the timer shell.
Would be better to use the thin brass shield, and dump that thick washer with the cut side.
Here are pics of replacing the New Day brush.
Brass shield going over felt.
Parts, the nut, keeper washer, cam lock pin, New Day brush, and timer shell in background.
New Day brush pushed on cam end, and cam lock pin inserted into slot in brush.
Put keeper washer over the pin and face of brush, and then place nut and tighten to secure assembly.
Put in a modern seal and a new timer of your choice. Someone please give Scott the seal Part number so he can get one locally.
If you really want to change the felt, if it's worn and leaks oil, then remove it from the front plate by prying it out.
Clean the area where the old felt was removed, and press in the new modern seal in the same place.
Tamp it in place, some use RTV gasket cement to get leak free install. Most times its easy to press, tamp in place.
Sometimes not, if the front place was placed incorrectly without a centering tool, the neoprene seal might hang up on the camshaft, since the coaxial fit of the camshaft and front place hole is lost.
Modern seal in place.