The top is what I have the bottom is what I need. I thinking of cutting the corners and adding the tip to the bottom, welding in and re-drilling the bottom hole. Has anyone done this to theirs? And while we're here, can someone explain the procedure for mounting the ear. I would assume I need to "tin" the pan and ear with brass and heat them, melting the brass, as the rivets are set? That's the only way I see to get brass under the ear. Please tell me your way for attaching the ear.
Why not just use it as is? You should be able to braze it after you rivet it on. Get it red hot and don't skimp on the flux.
Bob, the one time U tried to swap pan ear, it took way too much heat to get the "tinned" bronze to flow. I felt I needed a furnace to get the pan up to enough heat for it to flow like solder. I eventually ruined the pan with local heat, and started again. This time I was content to flow bronze in around the perimeter of the ear, and then bronze around the rivets on the inside.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
I do not know, but I believe that square bottom arm is a common replacement from back in the day, maybe into the '50s. I have one pan that has one of each. Careful examination shows the square one has been a replacement on that pan.
I see nothing wrong with cutting the angles before applying the arm to the pan. I also see nothing wrong with leaving the square corners there.
I would recommend carefully measuring the height from where the motor/hogshead sits up to where the arm will sit on the frame rail. It should be correct, but if the rivet holes were off only a little bit on either piece, the engine could sit not straight. I would clean the pan well. Bolt the arm in place. Now measure and square everything. Then replace one bolt at a time with a rivet. Recheck height and square. Then braze the arm around the pan outside and the rivet heads inside.
Now. Final square the entire pan on a pan jig if you have access to one. There are good ways to straighten a pan without a jig if you have to.
Have fun and good luck!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I don't believe there is enough metal past the rivet hole to cut the ear at the same angle.
Can't you just weld repair the original pan arm? I've done a lot of repairs on these pans. If you weld anywhere it has been brazed previously the weld is not too good, the brazing results in impurities. You eventually get cracks in the metal next to the weld.
No, there is not enough metal I will have to weld in a small triangle to the ear, I plan on making the ear look as close a possible before mounting it. This is a long snoot pan, the only long snoot I have, and I would like to put it back as original as I can. Thanks for the heads-up on brazing.
I agree with Allan. I'd get both surfaces as clean as possible and try to flow the brass in from the sides and the center hole.
Bob, replacing the ear is such a pig of a job I would certainly explore Royce's suggestion that you repair what you have. You don't say where it is thin. Photos of the damage would make suggestions better targeted. I have repaired a number of broken/cracked ears by first welding up the cracks and then re-inforcing the repair. I bend 5/16" rod pieces to fit in the grooves in the ears. These are cut at the lower edge of the frame so they are not visible in situ. A thorough clean up of the grooves allows the rods to be bronze welded in place. This results in far less heat in the pan and a greatly reduced risk of warpage. Please consider. As you state, long nose pans are scarce and it is a shame to put an otherwise good pan at risk.
Allan from down under.
PS. This recommendation comes from experience. I have a 1012 pan hanging in my shed, with a pair of arms I replaced. It is warped/shrunk so badly that the holes for the trans cover no longer line up by at least 1/2 a hole.
You could have the ear machined off and then rivet and braze on the replacement. Machining the ear off will take some care but you do not have to melt the entire braze joint at once.
When you arc weld copper or brass will reflect the arc preventing a sound weld. I think if you gas weld you might have better luck. You would need to grind away any brass in or near the weld zone.
We're at plan B, I took the ear off along time ago. Keep thinking I'd find a proper ear but no luck thus far. I'm with you on removing all brass possible before welding and will TIG with a high alloy stainless to help with any I might miss. The welded area will be in a non-load bearing area, I don't feel that contamination will be a problem. It looks all warped-up in the picture but it's very flat.
Bob, If I had to do it again, I would bolt a hogshead to the pan, and do all the welding/bronzing with it bolted in place. Once finished on the outside, the cover could come off to bronze around the rivets on the inside.
Allan from down under.
Very good suggestion Allan ! The extra rigidity of the trans. cover bolted on should help minimize warping. I have to do arm repair on an early pan also - 7 rivet, tea cup !