1909 Canadian Model T with Chadwick Bros. brass lights.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: 1909 Canadian Model T with Chadwick Bros. brass lights.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Kramer on Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 05:16 pm:

1909 Canadian Model T with Chadwick Bros. brass lights.
I was wondering if anyone with a Canadian built 1909 T ,had Chadwick lights on them ?
Did the cars exported to Australia have Chadwick lights on them ?
Our 09 has the Chadwick headlights & cowl lights,but is missing the tail light.It didn't have a tail light on it when my late friend Tom bought it in 1952.
Does anyone have a picture of a 1909 Chadwick tail light for a T.Or better yet a tail light for sale.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 05:56 pm:

Never heard of this brand before. Sounds like after market & not factory fitted to me, but I am not a Canadian 1909-10 expert either. Hopefully one of those guys will chime in and help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 06:07 pm:

Pictures would be great. I've never heard of that brand of lamp - would love to see an example.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Kramer on Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 07:30 pm:

David,
These were factory lights put on some 1909 Canadian Model T Fords made in Walkerville,Ontario,Canada.
Royce,
If you check out topic,More Model T treasures found in a garage,Nov. 7/14,& scroll down to Sunday Sept.28/14,6:41 PM,we posted a picture of the front of our 1909.It shows the headlights & cowl lights.I will post a better close up picture of the lights,later.
The Chadwick Bros.lights were made in Hamilton,Ontario,and used on many cars made here in Ontario.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 08:04 pm:

For Royce,

Kevin Mowle mentions that C.L.A.S.C.O. was basically an E&J Canadian lamp company that started supplying Ford of Canada with lamps around 1913-1914 see the posting at:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/142224.html?1274531192

And in a 2008 e-mail Kevin shared:

“F of C purchased lights from Chadwick out of Hamilton ON, for some of the early Ts. I cannot verify when they changed to American made lights until CLASCO was established 1913/14.”


And on page 26 of the Jul – Aug 1968 “Vintage Ford” Herman Smith (R.I.P.) the Ford of Canada historian published an article about Canadian Fords. It the article he stated,

“Some of the early Canadian Fords used headlamps
and windshields made by Chadwick Bros.,
of Hamilton Ontario. However it must be remembered
that these were optional accessories at the time
and that in the later years, John Brown and Victor
lamps were used and in roughly the same styles
as the U.S. cars for the period.

So yes, Chadwick supplied lamps to Ford of Canada. Currently the only photos of the Chadwick lamps that I have available for posting are from car #4032 from several years ago as well as the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/481021.html?1411944074 where Scott has the car in his trailer. Shown below is the cropped photo from the thread he pointed you to:



One possible lead is for someone to check the 1909ish Model T Ford at the Canadian Automotive Museum at Oshawa, Ontario Canada. That car also has some three tier chimney lamps and they may or may not be Chadwick. Note the USA provided lamps - E&J was a two tier top and the Atwood Castle 204 and Brown 60 side lamps were three tier tops – similar in style to the Chadwick. And of course there could have been variations in what each company provided.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 08:16 pm:

Once again, I learn something new everyday about our humble Model 'T'!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 08:24 pm:

My brother has a 1910 McLaughlin Buick and it has Chadwick lights.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 08:30 pm:

Scott,

OK now we really need pictures. If you are unable to post them yourself you can send them to me roycegte at earthlink dot net and I will be happy to post them for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Kramer on Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 10:19 pm:

I believe that our 09 has a Chadwick windshield.
I will see if the pictures that I have, show enough detail to post,if not I will take some more & post them tomorrow.Chadwick also made carbide generators.I will check to see if there are any names on ours.
Hap,
Back in August, before we purchased the 09.My son Christopher & I visited the museum in Oshawa.I took pictures of this very original 09 Ford.Its to bad that I didn't know I should have been taking pictures of the lights etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Findlay on Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 03:12 am:

Scott
I have a Canadian 09 rhd touring that I'm building/restoring. I too have been hoping to find Chadwick lights for it and I've been looking for the last few years. I've found and purchased a tail light and the acetylene generator. That's all I've been able to find out here in Vancouver. There is a 1910 Reo here that has Chadwick headlights on it. They look to be the same size as a T would take. He didn't want to trade....
The tail lite I found was nickle plated at one time and has a few dents. I keep it here in the office so here's a few pictures of it.


Ken







Ken


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Benoit on Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 04:32 am:

Hi Scott,

That roller in your profile looks great. Is there any chance of more photos, maybe in a separate thread? I searched the forum but couldn't find much info except a brief mention in your treasures thread.

Thanks

Andrew


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 07:58 am:

Ken posted this picture of his awesome '10 tourabout a couple years back:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/89355.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Kramer on Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 08:34 am:

Hi Ken,
Do the right hand drive 09 Fords have a right side mounted tail light ? If so that means that they made rear lights for the right & left.
Hi Andrew,
I will take some pictures of the lawn roller & start a new thread.It is the only one of its make that I have ever seen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver on Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 08:35 am:

like to have a set of those lights for my Russell knight. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 09:06 am:

Scott,

From the photos it appears your T has the Chadwick windshield that is characterized by a large hinge that the USA 1909-1910 windshields did not have. Below is a photo that Bob Trevan provided to Bruce McCalley (R.I.P.) [Thank you BobTrevan!]. It was most likely published in the "Vintage Ford" but I don't have time to locate the page and issue number at the moment. It was published on page 71 of Bruce's book "Model T Ford" [Available in paperback from the club store at: http://modeltstore.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/model-t-ford-the-car-that-changed-the-world ]. I cropped it in hopes of showing more detail of the windshield. Bruce labeled it as a 1910 Canadian touring – it has the 30 x 3 1/2 tires on front and back wheels. . [I apologize for the lines – they are not in the original and appeared after I resized the photo.]





Note that in the photo above the car does not have the 3 tier chimney like the Chadwick lamps on Scott’s car as well as possibly on the car in the Canadian Automobile Museum mentioned above. The lamps in Bob Trevan’s photo look to me like they might be the E&J with the flare at the front see: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sl1.htm

So much more still do rediscover. I suspect, but do not have firm documentation to prove that the early Canadian Model Ts may have been provided with Chadwick or USA supplied lamps depending on availability of the Chadwick lamps and the time frame. That is a guess on my part – which is partly supported by Kevin Mowle’s comments and Herman Smith’s comments above and repeated here:

And in a 2008 e-mail Kevin shared:

“F of C purchased lights from Chadwick out of Hamilton ON, for some of the early Ts. I cannot verify when they changed to American made lights until CLASCO was established 1913/14.”


And on page 26 of the Jul – Aug 1968 “Vintage Ford” Herman Smith (R.I.P.) the Ford of Canada historian published an article about Canadian Fords. It the article he stated,

“Some of the early Canadian Fords used headlamps
and windshields made by Chadwick Bros.,
of Hamilton Ontario. However it must be remembered
that these were optional accessories at the time
and that in the later years, John Brown and Victor
lamps were used and in roughly the same styles
as the U.S. cars for the period.

So it may have been possible that a 1909-1910 Canadian Model T Ford may have come with a mixture of Chadwick and USA windshield and/or lamps. And of course the very early Model Ts in the USA were sold without windshields so one could have been purchased later. Note the windshield on the 1909ish in the Canadian Automobile Museum does not appear to be a Chadwick.

This may also be an opportunity to work together to have a few Chadwick lamps reproduced? The 1929-1931 Model A Ford town cars had some unique outside review mirrors. They had new ones reproduced using an original as the sample.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Kramer on Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 01:06 pm:

Hi Hap,
The oil fonts on the Chadwick lights have 2 buttons that you push in to remove the oil font.It is the same as a Solar oil font.
I think I have a Chadwick cowl light with the flare on the front of the light out in the garage.If it does I will post a picture of it also.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Kramer on Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 05:42 pm:

This is a correction about the 2 buttons that you push in to remove the oil font.Our 09 doesn't have the buttons to remove the font.Sorry about that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 08:54 pm:

Scott,

Not a problem. That is one of the nice things about photos. Even if I put the wrong label on it -- folks can see what it really is. Many of us are looking forward to what else you and others discover about the Canadian Ts.

You can also see what I believe are those large hinges of a Chadwick windshield on the photo above of Kin Findlay's tourabout. As well as the photo below from: https://www.flickr.com/photos/50312897@N02/4619778599/in/photostream/ (listed as a 1911 but I believe it is a 1909-10 Canadian touring). Note that it does NOT have the three tier Chadwick side lamps but again what appears to be the E&J side lamps or very similar looking lamps.



And below is another 1909-1910 Canadian touring (you can see the seam/quarter round running vertically on the rear panel and also equal size tires) as well as the tail lamp on the left side of the car. It is the one that ran off the cliff and landed upside down. I turned it so the car is right side up but in the original photo the wheels are up in the air. With this photo I cannot tell what type of windshield the car had. But we can say it had two tier lamps and NOT three tiers on the chimney.



I believe both of those photos add support to the theory that some of the 1909-10 Canadian touring cars could be equipped with the Chadwick as well as other lamps.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Monday, November 24, 2014 - 12:25 am:

Hap,
That is a Chadwick Windshield on the B & W Photo with the little girl on the Running Board
Ken Findlay's car does not have one.

-Don

**If anyone has a Pair of Chadwick Headlights I will trade them for a set of MINT Atwood-Castle #84 Headlights off the 1908-09 Early T's Being a Canadian I would like a set (719)784-1915


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Findlay on Monday, November 24, 2014 - 02:05 am:

Scott
I don't really know if the rhd cars had the taillite on the right side instead of the left. It's hard to find rear view pictures from that era.
However I have seen a lot of other brass era cars that are rhd. Most of them that I can remember have the taillite on the left side. That's where I'm putting it unless I find new info.
Don is right, the tourabout doesn't have a Chadwick windshield. I'll look at it tomorrow and let you know the name.
Ken


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Monday, November 24, 2014 - 02:23 am:

The tail light was always lit from the passenger side. The tail light mounts on the LH side for a RHD car & vice versa for a LHD car. yes, the tail lights are different and made handed. And yes, those buying lights out from the US pay to have the the lenses reversed once here to correct them for our RHD cars.

For the 1913 style the tail light mounts on the RHD looking from the rear regardless of the control and the light is standardised for ease of production.


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