What's an aging purist to do?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: What's an aging purist to do?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 10:57 am:

OK, so you use a water pump for a wheel chock, you have leather seals in your rear axle, and you use only original air in your non-demountable clinchers. You'd rather die than put a starter in your pre-1919 T. But time marches on, and with the passing years you feel advancing decrepitude taking its toll. Will you become too feeble to pull that hand crank? Better put up a bar and do your pull-ups every day. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 11:15 am:

As far as a starter goes, if the car is well tuned and it is above freezing, hand starting a T is much easier than starting a lawn mower.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 11:21 am:

Hope you're not having any actual problems Steve but here's my take. It was done back in the day for whatever reason so it can't be all bad. I've seen 2 T's (a '14 & a '15) both beautiful cars both with starter engines in them. One was bought that way and the '14 was converted by the present owner. He told me flatly "I ain't doin that crankin no more". I'd take either one with no qualms about purity BUT there's plenty that wouldn't.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 11:22 am:

Agreed. It's a bit stiff after a rebuild, though. So far it's not a problem for me.

(Message edited by steve_jelf_parkerfield_ks on December 04, 2014)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 11:24 am:

So, Gustaf, are you saying you should put a starter on both the T and the lawn mower, or that you should hire someone to mow the lawn and drive the T for you?

Otherwise, I guess you are saying yow should let the grass grow to better display the T lawn ornament!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 11:34 am:

Steve, I would consider adding bearing shims to loosen it a bit and then run it. After a while you go back in and reset the bearings. Another way to do it is to back off the rod or main bolt torque one castle nut hole and run for a few weeks before re-torquing.

Another option is to park on top of a nearby mountain and walk home. Pop start it every morning and keep it running all day. It should loosen in a few months.

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 11:48 am:

Battry or not?? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 11:50 am:

Well Terry, to tell the truth, the lawn mower has a starter, because my wife got tired of pull starting it.
Steve has a very good point, and I think he is right in saying that we need to keep in shape. If it comes down to not being able to hand start the T, I suspect that mine will have the starter replaced (I removed it because my generator was fried, and I am cheap). I have to admit that at the young age of 60 with nothing more wrong with me than a bad back, broken neck and gammy leg, I am rather happy that I do not have to worry about a dead battery when I take the T for a drive. But I have been hand starting vehicles for all my driving life.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 12:09 pm:

Good advice there Steve, but Since I've been affected with the trifecta of degenerative hand/arm disease in both mitts, Carpel, Cubital Tunnel and Dupuytren's, I can understand the rationale for a self starter.

I had one arm/hand surgery with no positive results (not going through that again), I can still (painfully) pull enough to choke her, So I've decided to go for tuning... FREE STARTS! That is the answer!

And, by Golly if Royce's Pop can still crank start a Ford, so can I!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 12:10 pm:

Another solution would be to park the T on a hill so you can coast to a start. However, I realize that might not be possible in Kansas!:-)
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 12:22 pm:

Why go to all that work when a jack, one of these and a generator will do?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 12:42 pm:

I ask the question about WHY a person is a "purist". Is it because they enjoy everything being "just so" ? (introverted)

.... or is it because they have that ***** personality of telling everyone else how they need to do things ?

If it is all about personal enjoyment, then all the more power to them. I guess one might have to adjust their level of
"purity" as physical conditions demand, but hey ... if driving the thing is still Priority One on the pleasure scale, but a
guy can't hand crank or do other stuff, perhaps a mental adjustment is in order ?

On the other hand, I have no use for pompous, know-it-all purists whose only motivation is to play "holier than thou"
with others in the hobby. For the Rainman crew, it isn't about the cars. The cars are just a "tool" they use to play superior
to those around them.

Uh-oh ! Ten minutes to Wapner ! Definitely ten minutes to Wapner. :-)

(Message edited by adminchris on December 08, 2014)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 12:44 pm:

The very best thing an aging purist can do is take on a young apprentice for help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E. (Bob) Blackbourn, Gautier Ms. on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 12:54 pm:

A non-purist owns the car. A purist is owned by the car. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 01:59 pm:

Usually purist is the type person that would rather it sit and rot as original than either adapt so he can use it or sell it to someone else that can use it as is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 02:14 pm:

Everyone knows the Fountainhead Museum, in Fairbanks, Alaska, is one of the bestóif not the bestóbrass car museum in the USA.
They do it right and you can see in this video, how the cars are treated, literally, with kid gloves (okay, so maybe the gloves are cotton).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkedCiQbGkI&list=UUeEWhA44Ih237jsPzxbnz2g

Point is, this outfit sees the historical originality of their automobiles as sacrosanct; they're beautifully restored and fastidiously maintained.
But here in the same video as the gloved hands is the mention of the one compromise this outfit makes: The Electric Starter.
Hey, if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for anybody.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By harvey cash on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 02:23 pm:

My take on this is to relate a story my uncle used to tell me. For 2 summers in the late 1930s my grandfather, (his father) searched the car lots around Ogden Utah and bought a model T ford for his sons to take a summer trip to Yellowstone. My uncle said that the cars could be found for less than 10.00. The boys then had to make the car as dependable as possible for the trip. My uncle said that parts were no problem since the first summer the car they took was a 1912 and the second summer it was he thought a 1915 and every farm house along thee way had several old fords just rusting away in fields. On the first trip my uncle said that the wind blew so hard that they lost the top on the car and bent the mounting bows. They stopped at the next farm house and inquired if the farmer had a top from an old T they could buy. The farmer said he didn't but there was one car in the field that had a retracted top that he thought was good and he told my uncle he could have the top if he could use it. My uncle said he wasn't sure of the make of the car but he thought it was a Maxwell.
To make a long story slightly longer they modified the top to fit there T and continued on and had a very good week fishing in Yellowstone. He said that the top was so much larger than the original T top that they had to cut holes in the sides where it hung down just to see from side to side. Model T fords then were and are still used for enjoyment, And I say that the only PURE Model T ford is YOUR model T ford. Just one old farts worthless opinion. Harv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 02:49 pm:

Steve,
I may have an answer for you. This gentleman has experience driving Fords:



The good news, he definitely has experience with non-starter Fords.

The bad news, he's probably no longer available.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 02:50 pm:

I always thought of myself as a "Purist" but-- my A has a center main oil line off the oil pump, My T's get Ron's plastic coilbox "wood" and the Modern pinion bearing, etc. etc.--so maybe I'm not so "pure"
OTOH, I once had a "master judge" tell me the forged front fender brackets on my '30 A were wrong. Well, I'm the second owner and I did the restoration from an untouched car, so I know they're right and won't change them fer anyone. Later I found another '30 sport coupe with a San Francisco plant assembly number within a 1,000 digits of mine and guess what? Forged front fender braces! Sorry to bring up the A, but I was around them a LOT longer than I've been around the Ts.
Now myself, as a purist look forward to almost ANY new information on the way our cars were built. I also collect/operate American Flyer toy trains, and the variations that folks find in them are more easily understood when one realizes they were making TOYS, not collectables, and if some part ran out on the assembly floor, a substitute was quickly found to keep production going. I am certain this applies to our Ts too.
But then, I'm not about to tell a car owner "this isn't right, that isn't correct" unless it's a HOT ROD or I'm asked my opinion--and then it's ONLY my OPINION based on what I remember reading or seeing documented. If others agree with me then, hey, cool--I might be right!
OK, gotta go look at a leaking water heater and continue wiring the Pipe Organ memory so the church can have their organ back.
Run 'em if ya got 'em! (well, unless it's a really low mileage preserved artifact!) :-)
T'ake care,
David Dewey
PS, Robert, I think somehow we are ALL owned by our Ts! :-) -- Did I use enough smiley faces??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Karl Gilchrist on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 03:18 pm:

I love an original car. However I also love seeing old cars out and about . If cranking your car is an issue Install a starter and keep using it. Much better a small departure from original than a car that is never used -Karl


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gilbert V. I. Fitzhugh on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 03:46 pm:

I'm 78, and I have three brass-era cars that start with a crank (and one, a Stanley, that starts with a blow torch, but let's not go there). I enjoy cranking when an engine is in good fettle and starts with a pull or two. I enjoy it a whole lot less when the engine's being recalcitrant. My '13 T is a walk in the park to crank compared with my one-lung Cadillac, with its 5" bore and stroke. When I get too feeble to crank, I'll add starters - I ain't proud - but not yet!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 04:17 pm:

Why not build up a starter equipped motor and install and keep yours on a skid then when you sell the car switch back, Bob
Or add a starter to this and keep all the original parts in case you want to switch it back


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 04:46 pm:

Well Steve your just going to have to break down and marry some sweet young gal who has enough muscle so she can start the car for you! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 04:47 pm:

All of the sudden that starter sounds like a cheaper and better idea doesn't it! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 04:48 pm:

Purist: "A person who has very strong ideas about what is correct or acceptable and who usually opposes changes to traditional methods or practices. A person who adheres strictly and often excessively to tradition". Webster's Dictionary definition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 04:53 pm:

I think with less cost and work most Model T's will start on the switch hot or cold! Our 14 need's a little work so i should not preach!! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 04:58 pm:

Forum use Purist is often used to demean efforts of others while not being willing/or able to step up themselves!!!!!!!! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Colin Mavins on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 05:13 pm:

When I can't crank it any more I,ll drive the 67 Ambassador.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 05:28 pm:

Some people consider me to be a "purist" (at least as far as "era correct" goes). I do not consider myself to be a purist. I do like my cars to appear to be era correct as much as I can afford and is reasonably possible.
The thing is, that you cannot REASONABLY buy, or apply, truly correct paint in a truly correct manner. The same is true of the upholstery.
When I was restoring the 1925 Studebaker I had almost 40 years ago, I went so far as to take the remaining pieces of the broken original running board to a specialist wood supplier so that I could get the wood properly identified. The fellow looked the wood over for a minute and exclaims "Where did you get this?!" He rattled off the name (about a mile long set of words I do not recall) "This hasn't been commercially available since about 1940. Although there is a remaining forest in (I think he said Virginia) that may be able to supply some if you really want it." I repeated to him that I wasn't quite that picky and only wanted something close to what was original.
The point from all that, is that you cannot (within reasonable) even always replace wood with what was original. Nearly all restoration makes compromises in materials and methods. Anyone that behaves like a Holier than Thou true purist is a fool.
I would not put a starter era engine into a brass era car for myself. And I may not like it when others do it (maybe that makes me a fool?). Replacing the entire engine does devalue the car and may permanently separate it from its proper engine. I do like to maintain a certain level of "era correctness", and a close to correct engine is part of that. However, I have no problem with anybody putting a starter onto a brass era T (or sometimes other cars). It can be done so that there is no permanent harm done to the car. If that is what it takes to keep the car out on the road being seen and enjoyed? It is well worth it. Not really so different from chemically incorrect paint either.
Keep doing well Steve J! You are an inspiration for many here.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 05:42 pm:

David wrote:

" OTOH, I once had a "master judge" tell me the ________________ on my ______ were wrong."

========================================================================

I grew up within the paradigm set that shows and ribbons and judging were just part and parcel
of "doing business", be that 4H livestock, or old cars. It is common to most hobbies, and through
a different one than old cars, I began to question why we see things through this prism of competition,
when it seemed to me the very nature of competition was contrary to the paradigm of history and
sharing of information. It didn't take long before I stopped sharing my "stuff" in competitive displays
and insisted it be "non-competitive" (take me out of any judging/voting for "valuable cash and prizes"
and just let me share) or I just did not participate. People thought I was weird.

The more time that goes by, the less I like this way of interaction and see it as nothing but devisive
and destructive to a positive social experience within a given hobby. Yet people seem unable to even
imagine their hobbies without it. I think THAT is weird.

The good news is, with landfills running short on trash to bury, the competitive hobby "industry" is
stepping up with lots of cheesy dash plaques, ribbons, and trophies for everyone to clutter their homes
with, only to realize after much frustration that it is all so meaningless and throw it all away, providing
the landfill operators with the proper fodder for their hole in the ground. :-)

And let's not overlook the comedic value in some "expert" boob telling us how our cars are WRONG ! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 05:46 pm:

My 40 hp Chalmers-Detroit has no starter and no compression release so it can be a bear to start cold. To solve the problem I use the priming cups. A couple of squirts from an oil can filled with gas in each cylinder and slowly pulling up on the crank a quarter of a turn will start the car. I bet adding plug adaptors with priming cups on a T would get the same results.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Stewart -Calif. on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 05:52 pm:

From one Wanna-B Purist......Water Pumps, Starters... Whats next Juice Brakes!! Oh the Humanity*******


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 06:22 pm:

Val,I have used Champion H-14 priming cup spark plugs in our 14 for years.Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ryan Glowacki on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 06:44 pm:

I bought my TT from a guy who was selling it because he couldn't crank it anymore. He was 77 and was getting rid of all of his hand crank cars. So that made me happy as a 35 year old with (hopefully) some good cranking years left. Mr. T. is anatomically correct and "pure" to that extent, however, I can tell you this: The guy I bought this truck from had many, many vehicles. He bought my truck from the original owner because it was in great shape and he would only be the second owner. But he was almost a dealer of sorts...lots of cars in and out of his life, and I could tell he never got attached to this truck, so when starting it became an issue, he got rid of it.

I say that to say this: This T is my only T, and if I get another someday, it will still be my first T. I've grown incredibly fond of this vehicle, made a ton of memories in the 1 year I've owned it, and look forward to many more. I would (and probably will) sure as hell add a starter before I'd get rid of him!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John H. Nichols on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 07:24 pm:

This is slightly off topic but is a good illustration regarding purist & non-purist

A local Historical Society received a Log Cabin, built around the time of the War of 1812. Before
moving said cabin where it now sits, the local Town Historian had concrete poured for 2 foot block walls, and then had the Cabin installed.

I got to see the finished project and the Town Historian what were my thoughts regarding the concrete walls. My reply was that while I am considered a purist when it came to old buildings,
I whole heartedly supported his decision to use two foot concrete walls in the foundation.

So for those who are considered a purist, that is
your concept of what your T must be, and while
most of us fall into other categories, At least we seem to be of a like mind when it comes to our
T's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 07:33 pm:

May I propose some heresy ?

It should be relativity easy to find a old high torque, low rpm motor ... perhaps from one of those old drills that were held with two hands.

A little farmer type engineering welding a stub onto the end of the hand crank would allow you to attach the drill/motor temporarily to the crank to get the motor started.

Perhaps a small air tank stored in the back seat with a pneumatic motor for the crank when your away from home, or a DC motor run off a 12 VDC battery?

The object being that when the portable "commenser" has done its job, its removed and put out of sight. Yields an automatic starting T that is indistinguishable from the original.

Then ....of course, you put the whole shebang into storage until you really need it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 07:42 pm:

Interesting idea, Bud, a little OT, but that's how they start Top Fuel dragsters. Here is a video, you can see one of the crewmen remove the starter from the front of the blower pulley at the 18 second mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrqKMSn5Jj0


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 11:10 pm:

My take, is that when I'm too old and feeble to hand-crank start the Model T, I'll be too old and feeble to safely manage its steering and braking systems too. That will be my warning that it's time to turn the car over to my kids.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 01:48 am:

i have seen some starters added to the front hand crank. Normally housed in a tin box.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 01:55 am:

I never realized being a purist was such a bad thing! Guess I should start buying distributors, alternators, electronic timers ( oops, did I say that?) and maybe even a pinto engine!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 07:20 am:

If it wasn't for the purists, people today wouldn't know what a Model T even looks like. If you want a starter, why not just buy a '19 or later T and leave the earlier ones original?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 07:20 am:

It's open season, Kim. Open season.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 08:08 am:

A point in favor of hand crank cars. Years ago shortly after I bought my 14, at a faculty year end picnic where I taught, I drove the 14. One of the young assistants was facinated with hand cranking the car. She wanted to do it. She was hot, well endowed and wearing a low cut top. She hung with me the whole day, starting it every time we stopped. The view from behind the steering wheel was fantastic. I shut the car off as often as possible. Years later I put a starter and demountables on it as I drive it so much. Now my 13 is so original I will never change that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 09:40 am:

I actually see more non-purists criticizing purists on the forum than the other way around. Purists usually criticize the car. Non-purists seem to mostly criticize the purist.

I am not a purist, but lets face it - when it comes to preserving the model T, the hobby needs them.

We all get excited about a barn find un-molested model T, and we tell the owner not to change a thing. Then we hate on the guy when he takes pride in having a correct car...restored or not.

Vince M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 09:48 am:

One great example - Robs Model K. Beautiful car...and i am willing to bet as Rob goes through the car he is hoping everything he finds is correct and un-modified.

That car is what it is ...and more so...because of how the previous owners kept the car.

And before anyone says it - yes they are our cars and we can do whatever we want with them..but not without consequences...good or bad.

Vince M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 09:49 am:

Ditto on all points, Vince. As they say down in the delta, them's my sediments exactly. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brass car guy on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 10:33 am:

Sorry guys you all missed the obvious point. Get a 20 something hard body have her wear short shorts, stand behind her and offer encouragement while she cranks the T. Problem solved.

just sayin,

brasscarguy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ryan Glowacki on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 10:41 am:

Dan, I was picturing everything and laughing to myself on the train this morning.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 12:16 pm:

I like the way Dan thinks. So far, the only female who has cranked my car is my wife. Next summer first stop, the beach! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 12:33 pm:

By Vince M on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 09:40 am:
I actually see more non-purists criticizing purists on the forum than the other way around. Purists usually criticize the car. Non-purists seem to mostly criticize the purist.

I am not a purist, but lets face it - when it comes to preserving the model T, the hobby needs them.

We all get excited about a barn find un-molested model T, and we tell the owner not to change a thing. Then we hate on the guy when he takes pride in having a correct car...restored or not.

======================================================================

I would submit that we are talking apples and oranges here, but using a same term for both, such as "fruit".

The historically minded guy who knows what is what is a terrific asset in helping all of us keep it all straight
in terms of what was built when and wha tis historically correct.

The "Purist", as I use the term, is the know-it-all *****, who feels it is his God-appointed duty to tell everyone how "wrong" they are.

The two are as different as apples and oranges based on their motivations and actions.

One is good, the other is just plain annoying.

(Message edited by adminchris on December 08, 2014)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 12:41 pm:

My definitions:

"Non-Purist" - the things others do to get their car on the road.

"Restorer" - the things I do to get my car on the road.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 12:43 pm:

So if he tells you what is what and you like what he says, then he is a historically minded guy. If he tells you what is what and you don't like what he says, he's a "*****". I think I understand now.

(Message edited by adminchris on December 08, 2014)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 12:46 pm:

Great insight, Rob! A corollary:

Idiot - anybody who drives slower than I do

Maniac - anybody who drives faster than I do

:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 12:47 pm:

Hal and Mark,
I think you have it.
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Trenton, New Jersey on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 01:08 pm:

Now Steve, What did you stir up!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 02:09 pm:

"The modifications on MY car make it safer, more reliable and improve itís appearance. The modifications on YOUR car are unnecessary, troublesome, gaudy and ruin the whole character of the Model T!"

"If your Model T doesn't have year correct method of finish/paint, you would be a hypocrite to criticize the modifications on mine."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 02:10 pm:

What kind of oil should I use in my doctor's coupe?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 02:36 pm:

Cod Liver Oil, of course! :-O


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Trenton, New Jersey on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 02:57 pm:

Doctor's coupe? Hmm... You might consider baby oil just in case you're <delivering> something.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 03:16 pm:

Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 12:43 pm:
So if he tells you what is what and you like what he says, then he is a historically minded guy. If he tells you what is what and you don't like what he says, he's a "*****". I think I understand now.

================================================================================ =====

I trust we are all old enough to wear the Big Boy pants and know what tact and approach are all about. I don't
think it necessary to explain the difference between a helpful historian and a know-it-all *****. :-)

(Message edited by adminchris on December 08, 2014)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 03:24 pm:

Guys who think they know it all annoy those of us who really do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 08:31 pm:

Ryan, glad you were amused. It still makes me smile years later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 09:19 pm:

Well, put, Steve. ;-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brass car guy on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 11:46 pm:

As a newbie, only have collected and restored model t's and other early brass cars since I was 12, and now 71, I'm always amused at the guy who comes up and tells you what is wrong with your car, what I often refer to as a self styled expert.

So after listening to him run down my incorrect old car, I ask him what kind of a car does he drives every day. He then will tell you he drives a 2005 what ever. I then ask him which side of the dash his gas gauge on. After a while scratching his head and him hawing he has no idea.

I then suggest that if he can't remember where his gas gauge is on a car he is in every day, how can he be so cock sure my car is incorrect.

just sayin'

brasscarguy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 06:25 am:

I have been on a lot of national meet with both clubs. I have never run into an expert on any of these meets. These members are more interested in driving. I have also been on a number of Ford V8 national meets,they have a lot of experts. At one meet I had my 47 Ford convertible. One of these experts told me I would get a 16 point deduction for the dual exhaust, next it was my blue dot tail lights. Next it was the wrong color body welting. Finally I said to him everyone enjoys this hobby in different ways, some just like to pick apart others cars so when I do a car I always leave something for the experts to pick apart so they can enjoy themselves also. The guy turned and left,didnt see him again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 08:23 am:

Then there's the guy with a T at a local show a few cars over from mine who tells a spectator that the distributor on his T was factory......

I had not even noticed there was another T there until this spectator came over to me and asked where my distributor was. Seeing as how this guy was showing an interest, I politely explained that Model T's didn't have distributors and showed him the coil box and how the coils buzzed on battery, but explained they could run on magneto too, etc. You know? Just being the typical *****.:-) The guy then points out the other T to me and says, "Well that one has a distributor." I told him that it was not uncommon for folks to convert to distributor ignition. He said that the owner of the other car had told him it was factory. I told him the guy was mistaken, but when he left, I don't think he believed me.

Now, I have no idea why that guy told him that. I never had time to go look at his car or meet him, as I stayed covered up with folks looking at mine and asking questions. Did he really think the distributor was original? Was he too embarrassed to admit his car wasn't original? Was he just not paying attention to what the guy had asked him and just gave him some answer to get rid of him? Who knows?

(Message edited by adminchris on December 08, 2014)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 09:23 am:

Hal,

Probably told him that because he thought it was. It's a slow drift away from original.

Vince M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 09:43 am:

I sympathize with you Hal. Spoke to a similar guy a few years ago at a show out here. He had a '22 or '23 cut down Touring/pick-up (wood rear body) and said the car was factory original. Stopped me dead in my tracks. Had a nice conversation with him but didn't get too specific after his statement. I do believe, since he said he didn't have it very long, that he was told a tale and didn't check it out. He seemed happy anyway.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 10:48 am:

Ever play telephone? We did this when I was in grade school. The first person writes down a phrase or sentence. Without letting anyone see it, he whispers is to the person next to him, who whispers it to the person next to him, and so on around the room. The last person who hears the message writes it down. When it's compared to the original message it's invariably different. Sometimes it's not even close to the original.

Here's a little story I posted last spring when the subject of scrambled history came up: Years ago when I worked at the local museum, a fellow came in and asked if I could tell him anything about the house where he lived, the former home of Judge Parker, the hangin' judge. Well, Judge Parker lived in Fort Smith, Arkansas, not Arkansas City, Kansas. The house belonged to "Judge" Vaughn, a local justice of the peace around 1900. I knew about him because my grandma's youngest brother married his daughter.

The point of this little story is that when history is told, what is said isn't necessarily what people hear. I have no trouble at all imagining somebody saying 1925 and somebody else hearing 1922 and registering a car that way. This is why historians, competent reporters, and others who write information like to have more than one source.


I suspect that's how the stories Hal and Charlie heard got started.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 11:15 am:

This is why, when I work on a non-starter car, I recommend installation of a mag coil and flywheel made for a starter car even if they use the old hogs head. That way, if sometime in the future, they decide to convert to starter, they only need a different hogs head. and the entire engine does not need to come out again.
Norm


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