Putting a driveline together

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Putting a driveline together
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 06:07 pm:

When putting the driveline bearings on, from what I understand you put on the thrust washers and bearing, the roller bearing sleeve, the roller bearing, the key for the pinion gear , then the pinion gear and nut, put in the cotter pin. Is there a spacer washer between the thrust washers/bearing and the roller bearing. If so when does it go on the driveline? Thanks!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 08:46 pm:

Marvin. There is a spacer used when you use the early Enclosed Drive shaft spool. It is to keep the roller bearing from rubbing on the early thrust bearing lock ring. There is no spacer used on the later assembly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 09:01 pm:

Most "improvements" aren't, but one that really is an improvement is John Regan's Fun Projects pinion bearing. After using it and the original setup, I'll go with the FP bearing every time from now on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 09:55 pm:

Marvin, Here's the link to the Fun Projects pinion bearing Steve mentioned.

http://www.funprojects.com/products/2587e1.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 10:24 pm:

What I have are good original parts to use. The T is a 1918 but the spool is the open bolt spool for later T's. The only thing I need to complete the driveline is the thrust washers (two of them) and the bearing. Also, does the U joint have a brass bushing that is fitted over the square end of the driveshaft? I have read article talking about having it faced? Unsure what facing is. Also, does the thrust washer set run inside the spool with the roller bearing? Do you use a thrust bearing lock ring on all assembly? Thanks!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 11:10 pm:

If I understand, what you are saying is that your driveshaft thrust washer is composed of two races and one enclosed ball bearing assembly. If so, you do not need the spacer required of the earlier style cup, ball bearing and race assembly. The ujoint does have a bushing that fits inside of the front end of the torque tube. It is a flanged bushing. Facing it means that the thickness of the flange is machined so the pin can be installed in the ujoint so there is just a slight amount of clearance between the rear surface of the ujoint and the flange, about 2 -4 thou clearance. If this doesn't answer your questions, please let us know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 12:26 am:

Marvin,

Please take this advice with a grain of salt from a guy that has been building and driving T's for more than 35 years. What do you see yourself doing with this car? Are you just going to start it once or twice a year and drive in a parade? Then you are on fairly safe ground. On the other hand do you see yourself driving it weekly, with family and friends, and going on long T tours? If so then you need to know that the original drive line bearings and races have been known to fail without warning and if this happens then you could find yourself without brakes. Remember that the brakes on a T are inside the transmission and if the drive shaft bearings fail you are screwed. I personally will not build a T rear end with out the Fun Products kit. But I drive my T's a lot of miles yearly. This is the time to think about it and decide what you and your family's safety is worth. If you are determined to use the original parts please find a local T guy to inspect them and help you set them up correctly. Also do a forum search for pictures of failed DS bearings.Just my .02.

(Message edited by paulmikeska on December 14, 2014)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 02:52 am:

Very good advice Paul! Thanks! I have a partner on this T and I will tell him what sound advice I am getting. Also Richard that does answer my question. Thanks all, this really helps!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 03:30 am:

Marvin,

The T rear end looks simple but there are some things that a new guy to the hobby would not know. Buy the Rear End book from the MTFCA and study it. The gear lash between the ring and pinion in a stock T is set by the flange on the front drive shaft bushing and the flange at the rear of the U-Joint, but only if you pin the U-Joint to the drive shaft. As Steve said most improvements aren't, but in this case it is. There could be babbitt axle thrust washers in your rear end as well and they are bad news. They need to be replaced with new brass/bronze washers. My advice is to ask a lot of questions but the best thing you can do is to join a local T club. You will find that the local guys will go out of their way to help. I know because when I was a young T guy I received tons of help from my local club. Most of those guys are gone now but I (and most of the guys on this forum) try to pass on what they taught us!

(Message edited by paulmikeska on December 14, 2014)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 09:02 am:

I will have to say that using the Fun projects bearing kits is a BIG improvement in rebuilding a T rear end.
It makes things easier to put back together and a definite inprovement in the rear axle assembly.

So much for me in being a purist in using all original style parts in a rear end.

I have the bearing kit in 2 of my cars and they will last as long as I drive my cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 09:57 am:

Paul is correct. If you don't have Glen's axle book you should get it and follow it. http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html DO NOT just eyeball things and say they look good. I don't know about everybody else, but I can't tell the difference between .003" and .009" without measuring.

A little more about "improvements": As Paul and John and I already mentioned, the FB bearing really is. The only other rear axle change I would make is replacing the old babbitt thrust washers with new bronze ones. Original Hyatt axle bearings, not the new replacements. I've been told by experienced T guys whose opinions I respect that the new ones aren't as bad as their reputation, but as long as I can get originals I'll go with them. I also don't see any need for thrust washers or drive shaft bearings that have moving parts. The bronze ones will long outlast me.


I avoid the repop bearings with no grooves...


...and only seven rollers!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 10:23 am:

Thanks everyone. I do belong to the Western Idaho Model T Ford club and have some guys that will help me on this. We are a ways out yet from rebuilding the driveline so that is why I am researching it now. I am sure the local members will agree with you! Thanks!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 11:34 am:

I have several sets of good, used thrust & bearing assemblies available, if you decide to go the "original" route, Marvin.

I lived in Nampa for a while doing a freeway job between Caldwell & Nampa and out by Black Canyon back in 1982.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 11:49 am:

I can't believe you never mentioned the year of your car! That would be a big help. If you go by the Ford Service book you should have no problem. I have T's both early and late, and use Ford parts on all. No need for any reproduction parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 11:52 am:

Yep, he mentioned it. 1918 but with the later spool.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 02:43 pm:

Geez,....I HATE two, three and four letter acronyms! Might just need one more cuppa' coffee but so help me Steve, I can't remember (or figure out) what a "FB bearing is! Probably not important anyway, but drives me crazy! I read every word you say carefully Steve, but ya' gotta' use whole words for old senile guys like me! I suppose an "FP" bearing would be Fun Projects, but "FB" beats the heck outa' me! Re-reading John & Pauls posts didn't help either! Pleeeze Steve,.....whole words and sentences,.........thanks,.........harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 03:35 pm:

Harold, if I could go back and edit the post, I'd change it FP (Fun Projects) and tell you you're imagining things. But the editing option has expired, so I just have to confess it was a typo I missed. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 04:29 pm:

Aaaaah,.........So It (IS) Fun Projects! Thanks so much Steve,.....at least now I can sleep tonight,.....ha,ha.......

I apologize for the rant, I guess maybe I was just on one of THOSE moods this morning.

I spent six years in the USMCR (and to "practice what I preach) that's United States Marine Corps Reserve, and I have to say, as you well know, the military is notorious for two, three, four, and five (and more) letter acronyms and I guess that would really drive me crazy.

And by the way, I couldn't agree more,.....I can't imagine having a Model "T" driveline all apart and for the measly hundred bucks, not installing the Fun Projects non-adjustable bearing. One more thing I should probably say to sort of somewhat "counter" my earlier "rant", I not only read every word you post very carefully, but I fully appreciate the photos that you take. Absolutely second to none (like your videos). Also, I think we both have the same idea about those Hyatt bearings,.....good used original Ford Hyatt bearings are the way to go. Later,.........harold


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