Heed Their warning!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Heed Their warning!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Monday, December 15, 2014 - 06:59 pm:

I own two Model T's a 1922 Coupe and a 1927 Touring. I am still considered a newbe only owning Model T's for 10 years but I must speak up and tell other newbes to heed the warning of the experienced Model T owners. I've read several threads that always warn you not to trust what the seller told you about your Model T and ALWAYS CHECK THE REAR END for proper thrust washers. Well I'm here to say follow the advice of the long time Model T owners! I purchased the 1927 Touring about 4 years ago and was told that it was their Dads favorite Model T and he had everything rebuilt on it because they used it in a lot of parades and Sunday drives. Well I've been running it alot since I bought it and it always prayed on my mind about tearing down the rear end and checking it to be sure it was safe. Well today I finally had the time to open up the rear end and I shocked to find nothing but ground up Babbit in the pumpkin. I took the last owners word for what was done even after reading all the warnings I kept driving it. BOY AM I LUCKY. So I guess I'm here to say to all those who have purchased a Model T and have not looked into the rear end to know exactly what is in there DO IT NOW! I could have hurt someone if the rear end would have failed. Please take time to be sure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Monday, December 15, 2014 - 07:08 pm:

I wouldn't drive a T without a good handbrake.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan on Monday, December 15, 2014 - 07:38 pm:

I think the key is to ask lots of direct and pointed questions and ask for proof. I went and looked at a 1919 Touring an older gent had up for sale early last spring. He assured me that the car was "all rebuilt and gone through", as well as being a frame-off restoration. But when I pointed out that the rear end was obviously leaking and showed no signs of ever being touched, then asked for documentation of what exactly was done in the engine, all I got was the same story. As far as the frame-off claim goes: I pointed out the cracking in between the paint on the fenders and the paint on the body indicated that it had never been torn down. He stuck to his story. So after exchanging a few more pleasantries, I politely told him I didn't feel comfortable making him and offer and left. By the way, it's still for sale.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, December 15, 2014 - 09:10 pm:

Yep, my touring was supposedly "restored". I guess it was, if fixing the body and ignoring the drive train constitutes restoration. I rebuilt the worn-out front end, the NH with rust holes through the bowl, and this:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Monday, December 15, 2014 - 10:19 pm:

When you buy a T, there are lots of things that can be wrong with it that the seller may or may not have mentioned, but it can still be driveable. Worn bands, noisy engines, old tires, etc., can be a nuisance, but not generally huge problems otherwise. However, babbitt thrust washers in the differential can make a drive go from good to bad, and even dangerous, VERY quickly.

Not only can you lose your gear mesh completely and render engine braking and the brake pedal useless, but the axles sliding in and out have a nasty habit of destroying the brake shoes, turning the hand brake lever into just a hand lever.

I feel that the differential is one of those frequently overlooked components since it typically gives so little trouble when reworked properly, but it is CRITICAL that the babbitt thrust washers are replaced with new bronze ones.

At least that's something that all of us on the forum can agree on. Replace those babbitt thrust washers ASAP!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Monday, December 15, 2014 - 10:40 pm:

every model t i've owned was "rebuilt " by dad, or grandpa, and they were expert mechanics. the first sign is when they tell you "oh, we drove it all the time" and you look to see the tires still have the nubs on em, like maybe 100 miles, and they are all cracked up and 30 years old. i am always looking at the cheep stuff, but my advise if paying real market value, only buy from a club member with touring history, not from one of the kids after dad has passed. i see most the Ts on ebay are sold by some one who never drove it, and really has no idea what has been done to the car


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, December 15, 2014 - 10:51 pm:

If I buy a T I assume Dad or Grandpa didn't have a clue, and I'm going to have to fix a lot of what they did. How do I know this? Experience, boys and girls. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Bishop, San Diego on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 - 12:40 am:

I'll go one step further. I bought a 1914 touring "ground up restoration" from the collection of the owner of the major Ford dealership in our area. Restored by the best restorer in our area, if not the country, no cost spared. I talked myself into believing everything had to be OK. . .look who the owner and restorer were. And it had Rocky Mtn brakes!
Only after I was involved in a major accident on a 22% grade, the engine stalled, and I couldn't stop the car from rolling backwards down the hill, did I have the car torn apart.
No brake band, no brake shoes (drums, but no shoes). The emergency brake lever (that I fooled myself into thinking worked) wasn't even attached. Very lucky we weren't killed.
After it was torn apart, found a number of other things that weren't as they were supposed to be, including the babbitt thrust washers. I'm very lucky I had this accident before I drove it long enough to have a more serious accident.
Don't trust anyone about what was "done" to the car. Believe Steve Jelf's assumption!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 - 12:54 am:

While new to the T scene, I have been doing old cars now for just shy of 40 years.

The first rule of thumb: Only buy the car you want, i.e. a 1958 DeSoto Fireflite convertible,
and then plan on doing EVERYTHING to it to bring it up to par.

YOU WILL PAY to buy, build, and own your dream car, but when it comes to our dreams in
life, how much are they really worth ?

This is why I do not own half-measure cars, cars I just happened upon or got a good deal
on. I only own cars I love to the core and expect nothing less than to go through every inch
of them and find everything wrong along the way. No surprises, no disappointments. Just
me and my dream car and a smile all the way.

Why would anyone do it any other way ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 - 07:51 am:

Steve,

Those photos you posted could have been taken in my shop last night. That is exactly what the rear end looks like.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 - 08:53 am:

Safety items should be the first thing we check/repair when we buy a "new" T. Imagine taking your grand kids or other loved ones for a ride and having a disastrous accident.

Not a legacy I want to leave behind.

So inspect that hand brake, rear end, steering components, wheels, tires, spokes, front wheel bearings, etc. BEFORE you leave your driveway for the first time.

Making it go is good, but making it stop and go where you want is better.

Have I left out anything crucial to safety?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 - 08:55 am:

PS

Dennis

Thanks for sharing your experience.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 - 08:58 am:

somewhere in my junk is the receipts of parts I bought. If I was to sell 1 of my piece together T's it would be at least obvious to the new owner judging by the paper work that i had put in bronze washers.
I feel like it is a good idea to keep paper work,but keep it where you could find it! I could not tell ye where mine is at the moment.

I guess the reason some of us have half measure cars is that is about all we can muster budget wise.But safty is not something to budget on.dont drive it till it can be stopped.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 - 10:02 am:

Dennis, I'm glad to hear you dodged a bullet! I think the trouble with most new T owners, myself included, is the "fear" of taking that "big ol' rear end/drive train" out from under the car, opening it up, dealing with the mess, etc.
Well, once I got the gumption, after noticing some end-play on one of my wheels of my first T, the '20 Runabout, it turned out to be not that bad at all, and actually pretty fun to do! That said, as soon as I had a decent day the winter I got my second T, the '15, I immediately took it apart just to verify the thrust washers, and subsequently replace a bent axle shaft. And this fall I just finished the same on my third T, the '12, mainly because I couldn't stand it peeing the black drops under the pumpkin. Fixed some hidden issues, the gaskets, fresh oil, and now the floor under it staying dry! All is good.

So yes, new folks... take 'em apart anyway, no matter what the previous guy says. An ounce of prevention.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 - 11:00 am:

I bought a truck load of wonder parts this summer. It included a complete rear axle assembly in great shape. I opened it up and found a babbitt washer in like new condition. It'll make a good wall hanger. PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Friday, December 19, 2014 - 09:20 pm:

IT'S A JEWEL AGAIN! I ran over to Snyder's on Wednesday and picked up the parts I needed and got the Touring back together tonight. I ran it a short distance up the road and it ran great. Too dark to safely run it through it's paces so I will do that tomorrow after work. So now both of my cars are back on the road :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P Noonan on Friday, December 19, 2014 - 09:42 pm:

Wow Dennis that was quick!..great job. Did you need to replace anything other than the thrust washers?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Friday, December 19, 2014 - 10:15 pm:

Yes John all the roller bearings, sleeves,grease seals, axle keys, all gaskets,universal joint pin, ball joint gasket steel thrust plates, brake shoes & rivets,axle fiber washer, and 600 weight oil. Clean all the old broken babbet pieces out of the rear end and apply all new grease and down a few beers because this is the first time I have had a vacation in 16 years! all though I have to report to work for the weekend and then I'm off until the 31st


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, December 20, 2014 - 10:29 am:

Good advice Seth about checking out the rear end on your T.
In this era of driving our "modern" cars we tend to not think of checking them out as much.

We need to remember our 100 year old cars need tender love and care more than our newer ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, December 20, 2014 - 10:32 am:

Good advice Seth about checking out the rear end on your T.
In this era of driving our "modern" cars we tend to not think of checking them out as much.

We need to remember our 100 year old cars need tender love and care more than our newer ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willie K Cordes on Saturday, December 20, 2014 - 11:26 am:

Just since you replaced the thrust washers with the new bronze ones does no mean it will last forever.
About 20 years ago, I replaced the babbit thrust washers in my 1921 center-door T. It was not long after the repair that I noticed some noise out of the rear end. I checked the oil level in the rear end and it looked very "golden" in color. I jacked up the rear end and found that the wheels had a lot of in and out movement.
Long story short, one of the replacement bronze washer had broken and gotten ground up by the rear end.(that caused the gold color in the oil)
I could not find anything that I had done wrong, so I replaced the broken washer and that was about 20 years ago. After many tours, it is still going great.


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