Any ideas as to why the Kevlar bands would seem to be dissolving? Each time I check them the oil screen is full of what feels like oily lint.
I've had that symptom and traced it to a cracked low drum (chewing up the low band end with every revolution.)
Cracked or pitted drum.
I had a friend that had that problem happen to him. After doing a little research, I found out that Kevlar holds the heat more than cotton. Heat holding in a band is caused by a dragging band. witch can be caused by a number of things. We found for #1 problem was a O ring was to large on the shaft going through the side of the hogshead. When the plate is tightened down, it flatting against the shaft, and slows down the return of the shaft and releasing the pressed band. #2 A worn pin that goes through the same shaft will not let a full release of the band. These 2 problems can cause a over heated drum witch will cause a cricked drum.
In Sambucca or your Dr's Coupe?
Part of the issue may be the ends of the Kevlar weren't sealed prior to installation. This will allow them to un-ravel as you can see.
That dark discoloration on the brake band doesn't look too "skookum" either !!!
Wood wears away or even burns before overheating the drum.
$20 worth of wood or a complete teardown: your choice.
Same thing happened in my '27. The low drum cracked in three places. I chalk it up to out of round bands, thin undercut drum, worn cams and low quality return springs that lost strength quickly. I also did not seal the Kevlar band ends. Rebuilding with new low and reverse drums, original gears and going to try wood bands this time. Hope 2015 sees my car back on the road.
I'd certainly check for cracks while in there, but I'll bet your problem is not sealing the ends. I like wood myself. No lint to clog the oil line(s).
Here's a thread that talks about sealing the ends of the bands:
I think there are two producers of Kevlar linings. Linings from one of them needs the sealing of the ends, not the others. Can't tell which one, but I bought my only Kevlar band (I use it for the brake drum) from Rocky Mountain Machine Co, 3521 E St Vrain, Colorado Springs, CO 80909. It hasn't unraveled yet after four months - and I didn't seal it.
Thanks again to every member for their help. I would enjoy reading more about wood bands.
PS: Dave these are from Seabiscuit the '26, quote from a great movie "You know, you don't throw a whole life away just 'cause he's banged up a little."
I have had them for years in the '27 touring and I like them. I find them quiet and solid. Ralph Ricks is a big supporter of them and he drove his old yellow PU fast and hard with wood liners....
I'm putting them in my speedster project also.
Cotton wood liners are fine - I use it in the low band. But you should inspect the drums very closely before putting new linings in there - there might be a crack?
Also check the pedal axle cams for wear and if the pedals are bent - that may cause a too tight adjustment of the bands that soon overheats the drums and may crack them.
Seabiscuit is the Dr's Coupe with the cracked drum, no?
Cracked drums have been known to "dissolve" linings, yes?
(Like a hasp or file, cracked drums will also shred wood bands, no?)
Are those the bands out of the car you posted the other thread recently about "broken low band" ?
I don't think you've got a cracked drum problem. You'd see that on the wear surface of the bands and you'd have a hard time keeping a proper band adjustment. The wear surfaces look o.k. You've just got frayed ends. If the amount of lint you're seeing is what your photo is showing, I would not describe the screen as being "full" of lint. What you've got there looks pretty normal to me, especially if the Kevlar has not been in there long and is still getting seated.
I like the longevity of the wood bands but prefer the "feel" of cotton bands.
My first set of wood bands I burned up because I was;
a) A new T driver
b) Slipped the bands like I did the cotton bands.
This resulted in horrible chatter when I went to engage either low or the brake.
I was hoping some day to try a set of kevlar as their longevity appeals to me and I have been told they feel like the cotton bands.
Steve, yes they are from the same car. I will be tearing down the transmission after the holidays to check out all the bands / parts that will need replacing. Right now I'm just trying to get as much information about all the things I might need to replace.
Well... I guess you DO have a cracked drum problem.
I have 3 Model T's two of them have Kevlar and the other has wood. One of the Kevlar has had no problems. The other one had two cracked drums before I got everything adjusted right. I think I have solved that problem now. One of the things which I think might have led to the cracked drums is that that car has a 3-1 rear axle ratio. That causes me to have problems starting out in Ford low. I need to use Ruckstell on even the slightest grade or I will have to slip the band to get it going.
The other two cars have the standard Ford gear ratio and they are much easier to start out in Ford low.
The car with the wood bands is the one I have driven the most for 25 years I have not needed to reline the wood bands. Only difference I notice with the wood bands is that there is some chatter. The Kevlar starts out smoother.
I had cotton bands before and they don't last long.
I agree with Jerry, the ends should not have frayed.
The ends of the bands should have all the fibers treated at least 3/8's of inch from the end of the band.
I have never tried supper glue, but I know that electric insulator paint does work, and soaks through all the fibers.
I take the spry can and lay down something that the paint won't soak into and spray a puddle about 3 inches in diameter, and just stick the ends in the puddle and it sucks it right up. I give all 6 pieces, two coats that way, with in about 2 minutes. You will never get unravel.
I don't think the Rivets were crimped right, as they are all loose, and with that much thickness, they shouldn't be.
My $0.02, for what it's worth:
I really like wood bands. True, they don't have the soft feel of the original type cotton bands, however, it's a "feel" that you can soon get used to, and it's fine. I like the fact that there is not the problem of lint, and to me, that is HUGE! That alone makes them very desirable as far as I'm concerned. And as Ralph points out, with wood bands, there doesn't seem to be the hazard of a broken or cracked drum if by some chance, one band is dragging.
Now then here's the thing. If you are hard on bands, and face it, some people are, you will "char" the wood bands, and that seems to be one main reason why some folks have a problem with wood bands chattering. So, be honest with yourself,....if you are hard on bands, I would not advise using wood bands,....you'll soon char them. If you are easy on bands, wood bands will last a long, long time.
As long as I brought it up, what do I mean by being "hard on bands"? Well, quite simply stated, on level ground, I can usually "lock up" low pedal within just a few feet of starting out at a dead stop at a stop sign. "Locked up" means slipping the band at low engine rpm for only a few feet before "lock-up" when starting out. In fact, most often, I don't quite come to a complete stop when I can avoid it, because at idle, if your car is still just slightly moving, you can just stomp down on low pedal for instant "lock-up" and avoid slipping the low band at all!
There are many other ways of being easy on your bands by working on your driving skills, but believe me, if you don't think this way when you drive your "T", you are a poor Model "T" driver and you are "hard on bands"! However, if you are easy on bands, you will LOVE wood bands!
I won't even go into being easy on the brake band except to say that your driving skills should include constant thought of using the brake pedal as little as possible. And when you do use the brake pedal, never brake continuously for more than two or three seconds,....pump the brake pedal, as the oil will cool the brake band lining only when you let up on the pedal. I'll just say that if you are not concentrating on these things, you are NOT easy on bands. FWIW,.....harold
Well shoot! Before someone corrects me on something I just said,.....of course there are times when you cannot "pump the brake pedal". But I should have said to try to avoid those times as much as possible. Okey,.....enough! .....harold
I go along with everything that Harold has just said no matter what kind of band material you use. Most of my T's have Kevlar but the driving techniques he has described will keep any T transmission band lining lasting a long time and also protect your drums.
Well thank you Roger! Only trouble is, there are guys on this forum that could say just what I said in 5 lines instead of 25! Ha, ha,.....harold
I have Kevlar bands in my '17 and have had no problem with them for the last four years.
are the bands suppose to be cut and have that gap?
I am curious if that is a neat thing more experienced T guys do when re-lining bands.