Does any one have the experience of running an oil line from the bottom end of the bendix cover to the front of the engine inspection plate? I was thinking of using a reversed old faithful type piece in the front. So the questions are 1- is there enough oil volume in the bendix cover to supply a sufficient amount of oil to the front of the engine 2-is the angle great enough to push the oil into the pan. These are just questions I was pondering. At level I would think there would be but driving in elevations would it actually supply enough oil to make a difference. I understand that there are already multiple set ups that are made to do this but just thinking of new way (to me) to do it. Thanks for your input.
Considering the way oil is sloshed all over creation if the starter mounting screws get loose, I suspect the supply of oil would be sufficient. But I don't know if it would be any better than the other set-ups.
Rather level path, I'm not sure it would work well, especially with any kind of a hill, when you need it most.
A while back Gary Tillstrom posted some images on the forum of his home-spun auxillary oil system using the bendix cover.
I found some pictires on Google images.
Click here to see the images
Click here to see the images I found at Google Images
For text search---- bendix tillstrom site:mtfca.com
John ;I use them for years now, and give a lot more oil as from the hogshead.
Even going up most hills, there is still pressure/pumping action from the rotation of the flywheel. The oil is not just flowing from one point to the other. Unless you have removed or it's plugged you should be still getting oil from the internal oil tube. If the hill is so steep that no oil flows to the front, then it doesn't matter what you are using, time to add a pump.
If one measures from the bottom of the Bendix cover to the bottom of the dip cover you will find about a 4 1/2 inch drop. Now, if you have an engine taken down measure the height of the stock funnel and the exit point of the oil pipe (from memory it is only about 3 inches). The flow of 30W cold oil at idle is one 16.9 ounce bottle in about 20 seconds.
My buddy Ralph Williams and I had them right after I made them in 2006 for Clear Lake. The day that it was about 100 degrees when we all went to the farm up in MN we were so miserable that we basically tied the throttle and spark in a square not and ran the 50 (?) miles wide open. I do not believe both cars would have survived that in that kind of heat without burning out a rod without that oil line.
If you have an old engine on the garage floor raise the nose so the number one rod dip is the same height as the bottom of the Bendix cover. Do you go up hills steeper than that?
I personally, think it is hard enough to remove and replace a bendix cover without an oil line. To install a bendix oil line you need to modify the bendix cover. To install the hogs head oil line, you need to modify the hogs head, but at least it is much easier to get to than the bendix cover and it gives more sure flow to the front of the engine. The magneto plug oiler takes the least modification of the car and also gives a good angle of flow of the oil. Important, though to be sure the oil is flowing in the line from the mag plug to the front of the engine.
I went for the TH scoop on the hogs head.I have two T's but no bendix covers on either! Bud.
I cant see how it could be any better than Texas T's high volume outside oil line. Should you like to read the results of flow rate comparison tests, then click here
and then click on the pdf attachment down the page.
How often do you need to take off the bendix cover? There are other couplings than what are shown that could be used.
I have the pickup on two of my T's located on the hogshead and it works quite well with a 1/2" line.
That's what I like best about this forum (insert sarcasm). When folks with zero experience on something chime in as some sort of self appointed expert. This idea was published in "The Model T times" and in that article I very clearly stated that when the time came to remove the hogshead I would then install the better style fitting and plumb it to my delivery point between the front main and #1 rod.
My testing was limited to the first 20 seconds from a cold start. Exactly how much oil comes through the ford line or the mag oiler in that same time frame? Folks will readily accept the mag oiler with no published flow? That line is quite small and the hole in the bolt at the delivery point is even smaller.
If you guys want to pull your hogs head and add the high volume line go ahead. If you just want to install an oil line that works for a lot less than $90 and be done from start to finish in 2 hours to get your car going you will need another option (that's the reason I submitted it). By the way, as I can finish the installation of one up in under two hours let me know how the hogshead change is coming.
There is really no good reason to test this line as it works like a water level. If there is liquid going in the cup, it will make it to the pan.
Lastly, this project, the HCCT drawings / plans, engine stand adapter, advanced timing gear, and anything else I have submitted were to aid other restorers and I never sold anything. I know many folks today have a decent oiler, an HCCT, engine stand adapter, advanced cam gear etc. and other items as they read right past the 90% bullshit rate on the forum and are smart enough to see when an idea works.
Those of you in the cheap seats that slam every idea that didn't come out of a vendor catalog feel free to submit something, anything, just something. I'm waiting.
Gary,I like this idea,It could be used in conjunction with a mag post oiler if need be.
Like i said,some of us do not have a bendix cover! I think your idea is good but i have no starters! Bud.
Gary , I like the idea because it actually does two jobs. When you have the oil line connected up it holds the bendix cover in place while you do the screws up! I always hate that bit doing up the screws is a pest! Thanks for sharing. I no longer have a starter car but it is handy for those that do.
From here in the cheap seats to Mr. Gary Tillstrom,
I humbly beg your expert pardon.
Of course, if you feel my paranoia is showing, then please disregard this.
My post was to answer that of the original poster who asked the original question and to provide him with a link to information he might not have otherwise had. It was definitely not intended as a swipe at you.
This forum is a great place full of (mostly) great folk, none of whom in the 11+ years I've been a member, I've gotten on the wrong side of, and I hope, still haven't.
(63, and with zero experience).
The flow test you posted is against two commercially available products. The claim has never been made that the bendix line flows more than the high volume line. The original poster asked if anyone had experience with one and did it deliver sufficient flow along with would it work up hill. The answer to the original poster is yes on both parts. It flows more than the stock internal line as the line is about three times larger. The real reason to install anything is the concern that should the stock line plug with lint (or anything else) and you don't have some sort of oil line you likely won't like the result.
I did this modification when my engine was out for rebuilding. i tig welded a AN fitting to the bottom of the bendix cover and instead of going to the bottom of the inspection cover i went through the side of the crankcase just above the inspection cover. it works extremely good and cost nothing as i used WLA (whatevers laying around) the idea came from this forum most likely Gary's post.
Thanks for the idea!
Don't worry Gary... I WILL ALWAYS BE NO. 1 HERE as far as being a blow hard with a push of hot air behind me. I was doing this stuff when half these kids daddies never envisioned offspring in plastic pants. Hell, half the daddies were in plastic pants anyway. Yeah... I made my own, and the motor was outa the car. Ive wrestled a few covers back in situ and wont do it again. I can have the engine out in half the time it takes to pull the cover.
Ol' Hank Ford had a better idea, but not the best. That inside oil line was a dud. It also should've been on the other side of the rods, and a rolled seam??? Gimme a break. Half the oil leaked out before it even gets to the front.
Warm and blusterfully yours, BS in TR Now get the gerbils warmed up... a big pic coming through. Mabel is gonna hafta ring 3 long 3 long and 3 long to get this one.
The original styles of accessory oil lines had to be designed to flow the oil in to an existing location on the engine so it could be installed in the field by someone with limited experience or tools. That idea seems to still pervade most designs. IMHO the biggest fault with most designs is putting the oil in at the bottom of the inspection cover -- below the front main bearing location. While I certainly don't know or say this design is the best, this is how I do it:
On the side of the engine block, ahead of the curve and behind the boss for the timing gear cover on the off side from the manifolds, etc., there is a flat spot about 2 inches high and half an inch wide. It is very easy to drill and tap that spot for a 1/4 NPT fitting. Dumping the oil in at that spot lubricates the timing gears constantly, dumps the oil in directly on the front main and flows it back to the #1 rod and to the return. Alternately, the front cover can be drilled and tapped and the oil line brought in there. Works for me and has for years. Your mileage may vary, etc.
Stan or anyone, I sure would like to see some photos of the choices you described.
Stan, That sounds like a great idea. Wonder why it has not been that widely used? Some other installations are as much or more involved than your method. Sounds like it could be installed without engine removal and tear down.
Probably because you have to drill a hole in the block or front cover. I'm sure I have some pictures somewhere but I don't have time to scroll through all my pics to find it. It is actually pretty easy to do.
I've done another deal to oil the front main better. You can easily drill into the boss that the front main bolt passes through. Drill, tap for 1/8 NPT, turn the front main bolt down or just mill off the sides of the bolt so the oil can run down, drill a hole from the main bearing into the bolt boss and you have a constant flow of oil directly into the main bearing. If you have a lathe it is easy to center drill the bolt, then drill a hole that matches the hole you drill in the block and another from the bolt to the main bearing. You can tap the line and do the same for the center main. Just drill into the block right below the water inlet where the the main bearing bolt is. It's a very easy way to get oil to the bearings.
The oil around the bolt is not my idea, I stole it from somebody years ago when I asked him why he had an oil line going in there and he told me how he did it.