Broken starter

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Broken starter
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 05:40 pm:

What did I do?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 05:55 pm:

Bendix spring broken? If so, replace with a new one- all major vendors carry them?

If you are running 12v- buy & keep on hand spares. Been there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 06:00 pm:

Can I hand crank the car and still run it with the starter like this? How do I go about fixing this? What is the part the I need to replace?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 06:01 pm:

John - I am on a 6 V system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 06:10 pm:

Looks like you starter gear is still engaged in the ring gear, remove the bendix completely, refit the cover and then crank start and drive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 06:12 pm:

Scott, you can still hand crank the engine and drive it like is but, I would remove the bendix assembly first. As long as nothing else is damaged you just need to replace the broken spring. You will also need new lock tabs for the bendix bolts. Here's what you need.
https://www.modeltford.com/item/5022.aspx
https://www.modeltford.com/item/5025.aspx
(need2)
https://www.modeltford.com/item/3381.aspx

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 06:17 pm:

Frank - When you say remove the bendix completely, can you give me a better description? the starter and bendix is a new area to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 06:24 pm:

Steve- Thank you. I was just on langs looking for parts. This helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 06:36 pm:

Bend the locking tab on the very end bolt and remove, slide off that end block, it's on a key on the starter shaft, then the rest should side out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 06:40 pm:

Should also warn you never try to remove the whole starter from the block without removing the complete bendix first, it will damage the magneto.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 06:49 pm:

Frank
Just a word of caution.
The Drive Head bolt in your photo left appears to have the thick head commonly found on reproduction bolts.
Here is a comparison of the original Bendix bolt and the reproduction bolt.
1
Under the right circumstances the thick head bolt will push the Bendix drive cover off the transmission cover.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 07:44 pm:

Thanks for the warning Ron, will turn some of the heads from now on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 10:57 pm:

Scott, the bendix assembly is very easy to remove. Bend the tab on the lock washer on the bolt nearest the seat away from the bolt head and back the bolt out. Lift out the small key then slide the drive head and bendix off. When you get your new parts just reverse the procedure.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, December 26, 2014 - 06:21 am:

To answer the original question......Maybe nothing. Nothing lasts forever and 90 year old stuff does break. However, starting without retarding the spark will hasten the demise of bendix springs. And starter shafts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, December 26, 2014 - 01:38 pm:

Hmm, besides the thickness of the head on the repro, it appears the threads are not as long as the original--could this prevent it from bottoming on the key?
Which, of course, brings up the other question: why can repro parts be produced correctly????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Friday, December 26, 2014 - 03:59 pm:

Dave
Here are the Bendix bolt (not head thickness) dimensions. The Model T drive head screw is part # R10-109.
1
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, December 27, 2014 - 01:19 am:

Ron,
So there's the correct dimensional info, but not the material info (hardness treatment, etc. too) I take you are saying the repo folks just haven't done their homework??
:-)
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dwight Romberger on Saturday, December 27, 2014 - 01:41 am:

Take pictures as you disassemble the bendix, and lay it out in a line like Frank did in his picture. I will make it MUCH easier to put it back together. Take your time. It was a challenge for me the first time. Well, the second time too!
Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Saturday, December 27, 2014 - 10:52 am:

David
As usual.
To properly reproduce any Model T part you have to obtain the original factory drawings and documentation and do the research.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta on Friday, January 02, 2015 - 11:05 pm:

Hi Guys I have an update.

Bendix spring has been replaced. I used the same bolts that came off of the broken Bendix. Once reassembled and attempting to start, It sounds like it is rubbing inside. Could the cover be off center? How is the best way to center it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 12:04 am:

Are all the screws in? I don't see how it could be off center if they are.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta - Dayton, Ohio on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 02:39 am:

All 4 screws are in the Bendix cover.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 08:38 am:

Bent starter shaft?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 08:47 am:

Scott,
Same bolts? Are they your problem??

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 06:49 pm:
Frank
Just a word of caution.
The Drive Head bolt in your photo left appears to have the thick head commonly found on reproduction bolts.
Here is a comparison of the original Bendix bolt and the reproduction bolt.
1
/b{Under the right circumstances the thick head bolt will push the Bendix drive cover off the transmission cover.}
Ron the Coilman

(From Ron's post above: Christmas day, 6:49PM)

(Message edited by Adave on January 03, 2015)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 08:51 am:

Scott,
Same bolts? Are they your problem??

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 06:49 pm:
Frank
Just a word of caution.
The Drive Head bolt in your photo left appears to have the thick head commonly found on reproduction bolts.
Here is a comparison of the original Bendix bolt and the reproduction bolt.
1
Under the right circumstances the thick head bolt will push the Bendix drive cover off the transmission cover.
Ron the Coilman

(From Ron's post above: Christmas day, 6:49PM)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 10:32 am:

There is not much room if any for a thick head bolt to clear the inside of the Bendix cover if the cover is just off center when its installed.

I have seen a cover or two with wear marks inside caused by either being off center or the tab on the washer not bent over enough.

As far as the repo bolt is concerned I carefully ground off the thicker head to help the clearance issue of the last bendix I installed.

I didn't realize how close the clearance is till I started cranking the engine on my 21 Touring rebuild. I realized something wasn't right pretty quick!

I didn't bend the tab down enough and the thick head bolt didn't help any. And also loosened the 4 screws to help recenter the cover. It wont move much but there is there some movement there especially with some original covers that have slightly larger screw notches than others.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration