I'm thinking 1914, but if the more knowledgeable here can narrow it down for me it would be a big help.
I would say about 1918.
I have one on my 1919 Runabout that's identical.
I think? the earlier turtle decks had the rounded latches and the flat ones came later. Don't remember exactly when that happened.
The differences are shown in Bruce McCalley's book, From Here To Obscurity.
Thanks guys so it would be ok to say fits 18-20
Was it made or customized for a battery (second picture)? On the outside it looks like the one on my 1915. But on the inside, the floor on mine goes all the way to the front and curves up. It doesn't have that opening in the front third. That also makes me suspect this one is for a starter-era car.
I think Steve is correct, the front edge was modified to accommodate a battery. The '19-'22 ones have more of an offset there. So this one, with the stamped handles, is from a '17 or'18. Other than the handles and the battery notch, they are the same from '14-'22.
Flat stamped handles and the relief for the battery is 1919 through 1922 model year. If you're not a purist, you can put it on an earlier car.
My '17 roadster has the cast/forged round handles.
I agree with Mike. 1917-18. Handles became flat in 1917 and the changed front panel for battery access about May 1919. Matches a car I had (18). Have a starter 19 that has the battery access front panel.
On second look, I wonder if the front has been altered. There is not a picture of the front. All the turtles I have seen the sides and the front panel curve up at the bottom to match the back of the body. Also there is another wooden cross piece in front to complete the frame. This turtle appears flat (straight up & down) in the sides. Is it cut back???
When I was looking for a good turtle deck for my 19 years ago I can remember guys looking for the earlier rounded handles to put on the later decks to make their 14-thru? earlier cars authentic.
As Mike says they will all fit (14-22). Its just the details that are a little different.
As I have a '19 Runabout, I study these turtle decks very closely every year at the OCF and club tours. From what I've seen, '19 is the first year for flat handles. The earlier years have the round ones.
Here is a detail of the underside, and if needed I'll get a new picture in a day or so. It looks to me like the front panel had been cut to give access for a battery, just not factory. The wood frame looks old and is very sound. If this is the correct style of frame work for a turtle deck of this vintage. So a round handle is correct for 14-16. So with flat handles and no cut out for the battery I'll say 17-18.
So are these as hard to come by as a 14-15, because so many have been made to look correct for the earlier cars. Any ideas what the price range for one of these bring? I do not need this as I came with a much later car I just bought. Jerry
I paid 75.00 plus shipping in the late 70's for mine. I looked at several meets for a couple of years with no luck. So this one came up in Hemmings and I jumped on it.
I have seen them at Chickasha anywhere from 150-300 depending on condition. That was 2 years ago.
One with extra good wood would be a nice find these days I would think.
Its one T sheet metal part that no one is making yet also.
So does anyone here have a '17 or '18 car with flat handles?
the round handles also come in long,brass and short, cast iron. long being early, i think. its in bruces book.
I agree that the rounded, forged style handles are probably from an earlier car and the flat, stamped handles would be from a later car.
However, has anyone ever taken into consideration the shape of handle and the manufacturer of the body?
: ^ )
FWIW here's what's on my put-together 1915 runabout. I assume it's correct at least for pre-1919, as there's no provision for a battery.
The floor curves up in front to to form a front wall.
I suspect this brace to support the top is not stock.
Here is a previous discussion of the '19 and later stamped, flat handles.
Ok so if 19-20 could someone post a pic of the correct front panel for a cut out for the battery and I'll compare.
Jerry -- Here is a pic of the battery notch in my '21 Runabout:
Here is a pic of a turtle without the notch:
I was thinking that the battery cut was much larger on the electric cars than on the one you have, but the two of them look quite similar. So maybe what you have is a '19-up turtle.
When I said '17-'18 in a post above, I was going on information in Bruce's Encyclopedia, which gives the change to the flat handles as being in '17. And of course the battery notch would have begun in '19. I do not remember ever seeing a turtle with flat handles and no battery notch; all I've seen have either both or neither. So Dave Wells may be right, that the handle change occurred with the '19 year cars, not the 17's.
I'm not sure it's clear in the pictures, but my pre-starter era trunk has a steel floor, covering the entire bottom, that curves up to form a front wall. I'm not familiar enough with these to tell you what year or years it was used, except that it was obviously before 1919.
My 1919 roadster turtle (NOS) is the same as Mike's. Has the curved up panel in front and the battery "cutout" is identical. Flat stamped handles also. Hope this helps.
Here's mine. It pretty much looks the same. Another thing of interest is, no nuts below the handles. They are crimped in place.
Steve -- I've never seen one with a steel floor. Someone must have added that.
To expand on what I posted earlier.
The round, forged handles were still in use through at least the end of 1917 model year. That's based on my unrestored '17 roadster, a car with a known history.
The same goes Royce Peterson's '17 roadster which his dad purchased unrestored over 60 years ago from the original family.
I believe that they were also used through the 1918 model year but that is just an opinion and not based on any type of research.
At the 2013 OCF, I met the owner of what was obviously a very correct and near perfect 1918 Runabout. He said it was a thoroughly documented original that he restored, keeping it totally correct, not even a starter. It had the round handles.
(Message edited by 404 not found on January 01, 2015)
To add to the list of 1919 Runabout turtle deck interiors here is 2 shots of mine.
The sheetmetal on the deck bottom was added when I restored the car. The back and battery location is original. I installed a 3/4 plywood bottom to the cars frame and overlaid the plywood with sheet metal and cutout the battery area and used a sheetmetal brake to make the battery box bends.
Took a look at it closely and there is a reinforcing bracket spot welded on each side. So it is a later 20-22. Thanks guys for all the help.
Jerry -- I was going to ask whether you had moved to Indiana, but now I see you're back in Hays.
I posted in the what did you get for Christmas thread Saturday night wile in the motel in Richmound. Plans were to visit the museum when they opened on Sunday. We went to bed early and slept good, so good that when I woke at 5:45 and could not get back to sleep, just went and got on the road. Made it back a little before 10:00. But still hurts a little.
for the record heres the 3rd option for handles. sorry its not a great photo, but in the barn and the darn cat wanted to be in the pic so i had to be quick. hard to see, but its about 3/8" shorter, and a little fatter too. must fit some where in the transition to flat handles