Block # finding date?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Block # finding date?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Wheeler on Wednesday, December 31, 2014 - 06:46 pm:

Model tt one ton block # 10437698 trying to date truck any help would help, Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Wednesday, December 31, 2014 - 06:57 pm:

Early 1925.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Wednesday, December 31, 2014 - 07:09 pm:

Pg. 531 in Bruce's book...would be Sept. 8, 1924. Probably late morning, or right after lunch!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Wednesday, December 31, 2014 - 07:29 pm:

Here's another:

http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sernos.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Wheeler on Wednesday, December 31, 2014 - 07:46 pm:

Thank all you guys,Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Wednesday, December 31, 2014 - 07:46 pm:

It was a Monday.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, December 31, 2014 - 09:02 pm:

Dan,

I also received your e-mail with the engine serial number – thank you. It can be fun as well as challenging trying to date the different parts on a T with the hopes of narrowing down the date range of the vehicle.

In the case of the engine serial number it would depend on where the engine was assembled and following that date, where the chassis was assembled would determine the date the chassis was assembled. And sometimes completed engines were stored ref: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/doc24.htm where it states:

MAR 18, 1924 Letter from Chicago Branch
"We hear stories that some salesmen are telling their customers to be sure and look at the motor number of any car when they buy in order to be sure they get a late motor number. These particular salesmen are just making a lot of trouble for themselves because at the new plant we have hundreds of motors that have been standing there for thirty days or more and will be going into the cars in the course of production. This means that all dealers will receive motor numbers from the Burnham plant that will be considerably lower in number than those motors received from the Chicago plant so just stop your salesmen making any remarks at all about motor numbers because in so doing they are going to make a lot of trouble for you when we start shipping from the new plant."
A.W.L. Gilpin
Branch Manager
P.S. In correspondence the old Ford plant in Chicago is referred to as the Chicago plant and the new plant is referred to as the Burnham plant because it is near the Burnham railroad yards.



For simplicity we will skip the early production and start with 1915. Bruce McCalley (R.I.P.) used the actual daily log books of the engine assembly department of the Ford Motor Company USA to develop his engine serial number listing for the dates 1915 to 1941 (ref page 501 of his book). He states on page 501 of his book "Model T Ford" the following:

“During the Model T era, great numbers of engines were assembled at the Ford branches. Apparently Ford printed engine number job sheets which were numbered in advance, and these were attached to engines being assembled. These job sheet numbers were stamped into the cylinder block when the job was completed. Groups of these engine number records (not engines) were also shipped out, and these numbers were then stamped on the engines when they were completed at some Ford branch. Some of these record number shipments were noted, but most were not. As a result, while the Highland Park (or, later, the Rouge Plant) assembled engines on the days indicated, other blocks of engines might have been assembled days or weeks later."

"The author cannot stress too strongly that care must be used when attempting to accurately date a car by its engine number. Remember that the dates shown are those when the engine assembly was completed, not the car, or [REPEAT "OR"] the date a block of engine number records were shipped to another assembly plant."

And for your Chain Drive truck you have an even more complex issue of dating your truck. Was it close to the time the chassis was produced by Ford? Many of the truck companies would build you a truck using a new chassis (it cost the customer more – but it was all new). Or did an individual take his used chassis and have it converted and if so when?

And was the engine original to the chassis or has it been swapped out some time in the past?

While both Tim’s and Dave’s dates are correct, I believe they would benefit from a qualification statement. First Tim’s date comes from Bruce McCalley’s listing which as we discussed above is the date the serial number is recorded in the daily log books of the engine assembly department. And can be very helpful as the engine would not have been assembled before then (unless there was an error – and a few of those have occurred). And if assembled at the Highland Park Plant – the engine would have been assembled on the date he listed Sept. 8, 1924. And if it was assembled at one of the branch plants then add days, weeks, or even a month if things went slowly. So the qualification statement for Tim’s Sept 8, 1924 date would be “if the engine was assembled at the Highland Park Plant.” So how can Dave’s early 1925 date also be correct? The 1925 model year began on Aug 1924 and ended Aug 1925 ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1925.htm So the engine and almost certainly the chassis would have been assembled between those two dates and be considered a 1925 model year chassis. So the qualification statement for Dave’s “early 1925” would be “early 1925 model year and not calendar year.”

And to keep the information together, a link to one of the earlier threads discussing the truck is located at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/505530.html .

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Wednesday, December 31, 2014 - 11:32 pm:

Correct Hap. I did mean early model year 1925. I wanted to be more specific but, I had to hurry so I could post the first reply JUST ONCE.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, January 01, 2015 - 02:20 am:

Hap has used a perfect phrase when it comes to dating a T: date range. Some T's have a range of only one model year. Many have a mixture of parts covering a range of three or four years. And some embody the "whatever fits and works" approach with a range of ten years or more.


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