23 Touring Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: 23 Touring Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Bork on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 10:01 am:

I have a 23 touring and the seat backs are all rusted out. Does anyone have any good pictures or drawings of how they looked
Thanks Dennis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 01:45 pm:

Seat backs? The springs or the sheet metal panels?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Bork on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 05:10 pm:

seat backs and metal seat boxes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 06:26 pm:

Maybe someone else can help. I'm still confused. There were no boxes for the seat backs. The seat back springs (cushions) hung from the wood seat trim rails along the top with straps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 07:46 pm:

I think he is talking about the seat back panels and the frames the cushions sit in/on.

Here is a link to Lang's, this is for the rear seat. If you go to "home" and open "body" then scroll down it you will see the front pieces.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/S108.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Georgetown Ontario Canada on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 08:07 pm:

Dennis - here is a picture of the inside of the rear tub of my '22. Not sure if it helps


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 08:23 pm:

Greg,

From your photo, and from you location, I would guess that your rear seat section is for a Canadian produced Model T touring is that correct? If so, they continued using the basically 1914 wooden seat frame in the rear seat even though them moved to the metal seat frame for the front seat. The wood could actually be used – but for a USA touring, they would normally have a metal seat frame for a 1923.


Dennis,

Welcome to the forum and if appropriate to the fun of Model T Fords. Caution: folks can fit parts relatively easily from any 1914 to 1925 touring onto the back half of any 1915 to 1925 touring [excludes English drop frame cars, Australian bodied cars, and other non-Ford USA or Canada bodies]. If that involves the outer sheet metal that is seen, the bead on the panels will not line up nicely. See the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/32458.html for how that would look.

I think the most helpful thing will be the article at: http://mtfci2002.modelt.org/projects/touring_seatbox/touring_seatbox.htm Replacing a Model T Touring Seat Box. They use a 1923 touring as the example.

Next Jim Eubanks photos of rewooding what appears to be a 1923ish low cowl touring at: http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=101

Below are a couple of photo to help you ID that you have the 1923 style touring rather than the later 1924-25 high cowl touring body.





And I'm using the wrong browser -- the site doesn't like this one so I will stop with two photos. To be continued.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 08:36 pm:

In the photo below (Thanks to Phil Mino again!) the cowl on top is a 1924-25 and the one on the bottom fits the 1917-1923 (note the bottom cowl will fit onto the 1915-16 bodies but they did not have a half moon cut out and some but not all of them had a riveted front part on that panel.



And from the 1923 Price List of Body Parts they show a 1921-23 touring body below:



See also William Vanderburg’s 1924-25 high cowl. The front is different but the rear tub is the same at http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/154886.html?1284406326 .

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/351467.html good info on using the center line of the body when rewooding.

If you have a choice, working with the metal panels and parts from a single body manufacture and model year is much easier. Working with the metal panels from the same body manufacture and year (such as Wilson, Beaudett(e), Fisher etc.) is the next easiest choice, although the panels may have been stretched a little differently due to wear and tear over the years. Working with metal body panels from several different body companies that supplied Ford is more difficult-- as the panels were sometimes originally produced slightly different from the other company’s panels. And working with panels from different companies and different years makes it more difficult. I.e. the part looks like it fits but then later on you find out that you missed that it was a different year and that it isn’t quite right. For example you could put a 1921-1925 rear seat tub on a 1914 touring. It actually will fit and function well. But the body molding, top support bracket, curve over the rear fender, seat frames, arm rest style, three section rather than five section rear tub, are a few of the things that would be noticeable as incorrect for a 1914. And it takes just as much effort to install the correct 1914 panels as the wrong late 1921-1925 touring rear tub panels. Finally, it appears that the patch panels and replacement panels that are available were constructed using panels from one of the several body manufactures as a guide. If you happen to have the body made by that body manufacture, the reproduction panels tend to fit more easily (often still need some minor work). But if you have one of the other body manufactures, the panels will require more work to have them fit properly.

Again welcome to the forum. I would also encourage you to check out the local Model T Ford club(s) near you. See: http://www.mtfca.com/clubpages/chapters.htm and http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=15 They can be a real source of encouragement and help you as you learn to maintain the car. Steve Jelf has an excellent set of books he recommends for new owners on his web site at: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/ with the T section at: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html and the recommended books listed at: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html Note there are also free “how to books” on the internet such – see: http://books.google.com/books?id=uKVAAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:xR56bbT2W68C&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tdpWVMi4PMOjgwSAhoC4Ag&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false and there are others – but I didn’t see a 1926-27 one. And the Ford Service is online at: http://mtfci2002.readyhosting.com/manuals/Model_T_Service_Manual/mtsm.html and does include the 1926 -27 “Improved car” features.

And before you start adding gas and driving I would encourage you to read some the safety tips at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/505069.html

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Sherman Tacoma WA on Sunday, April 26, 2015 - 12:15 pm:

1923 Touring:
I am slowly rewooding my 1923 Touring using Leon Parker's fine drawings. Working from front to rear. Leon's drawings do not show a rear sill. I have the rear main sill brackets in place and the main sills bolted to the chassis, but I have no idea what the rear sill looks like. Tell me anything about the rear sill, wood, metal or ???
Thank you-Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Sunday, April 26, 2015 - 12:36 pm:

paul the rear sill is steal from 21 to 25 bodies it is riveted to the sheet metal corners and bolted to the main sill bkts with 4 1/4'' bolts. if you cant get new i may have an org i could let go of.charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, April 26, 2015 - 07:23 pm:

Paul,

Recommend you check and make sure you have all 1923 body panels and not a mixture for the 1923 front seat area and a 1917-1920ish rear seat area. Ford USA did not produce them that way but sometimes over the years a touring is made into a pickup and when it is converted back into a touring folks find and attach the wrong year range rear seat section. It will fit and function “ok” but the body moldings are a little different and the arm rests are a little different and the amount of wood verses metal is a little different. Please see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/32458.html for a discussion of that.

If you go to Ford Wood – they have some good illustrations of the wood for a 1917-20 and the later 1921-23 low cowl tourings and the later 1924-25 tourings. Please see: http://fordwood.com/ and click on the different ones for the illustrations. They are copy righted or I would just post them here. Also I believe the rear tub area is basically the same 1921ish to 1925.

Recommend you take a look also at the article at: http://mtfci2002.modelt.org/projects/touring_seatbox/touring_seatbox.htm Replacing a Model T Touring Seat Box. They use a 1923 touring as the example.

Next Jim Eubanks photos of rewooding what appears to be a 1923ish low cowl touring at: http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=101

Both should provide you some good photos.

Good luck with your project.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 10:29 pm:

This has a really good picture of the front seat frame top rail:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/32458.html


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