Help Setting up new coils

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Help Setting up new coils
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Wheeler on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 08:35 pm:

Have a set of new coils for 25 tt under stand the point gap at 1/32 ,do not have a coil tester any helpfull ideas would help


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 08:45 pm:

Dan, the point gap is not as critical as some other settings that must be done on a hand cranked coil tester or a strobo-spark. If the coils are new I would try to run them first before making any adjustments.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 09:03 pm:

Cushion spring tension and vibrator tensions are critical to proper ignition. Find someone with a HCCT that really knows how to use the tester to set your coils properly. ...... hoping that your coils have replaced capacitors of the proper electrical value.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Wheeler on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 09:04 pm:

The point gaps are not the same on each coil I think I should set the points at 1/32 to start ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 09:08 pm:

Dan:

Calibrating your coils on a HCCT will assure proper electrical values for all 4 coils.

But, physical relationship of the point set and upper hardware has to be established before HCCT testing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Wheeler on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 10:02 pm:

Thanks for the info, live in a very rural area do not have accesses to other owners of model t's, Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Wheeler on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 10:07 pm:

The new coils are from Mac,s t500wkt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 10:14 pm:

Dan,

They should have come properly adjusted. Try them. If your TT runs poorly or not at all, send them either to Ron Patterson or Brent Mize (Coil Doctor) for correct adjustment. Both are listed here http://www.mtfca.com/suppliers/Suppliers.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 11:19 pm:

Send them back and get a set of coils from Ron Patterson or Brent. You won't regret it. Don't keep the repros- return them if at all possible.
Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 01:27 am:

Dan has given you the best advise!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 01:52 am:

Yes, set the points at 1/32 and test them from there. i have reproduction coils and they work well.
(Must be annoying having people tell you to do something that is not possible but keep repeating it mindlessly.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Wednesday, January 07, 2015 - 03:13 pm:

Anyone who knows anything about coils will tell you that the repo coils in most cases are low quality and do not work anywhere near as well as a properly rebuilt and adjusted original coil. My advise is based on fact and believe me, this is not my 1st rodeo. Just trying to save someone a few $$ and from having a poor experience with the Ford ignition system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, January 07, 2015 - 10:32 pm:

Dan W. -- While Mac's has the best catalog, they often do not have the best Model T parts. As Dan McE. says above, I'd advise you to return those to Mac's and get a good rebuilt original set from Brent Mize or Ron Patterson. Both are listed in the "Parts Suppliers" link from the MTFCA home page, listed as Coil Doctor and Coilman. If you do that, you won't need to do anything to them except put them into your coil box and run them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Thursday, January 08, 2015 - 03:32 am:

Technically Ron, Brent, and myself are competitors I guess but not really. We are friends and share all of our knowledge with each other with regard to what the current batch of points are acting like and how we might all best adjust the points to make our coils run. We share parts when one of us runs low and we have fun together. If you have good original wood box coil units that came from Ford or KW during the T era then you can have Ron or Brent rebuild them and adjust them and what you will get back will be good to go without any adjustments needed. They use the correct capacitor and the same points we all use and they have the tools and know how to do the job. They are by no means the only ones but are the fellows that I know personally. If you don't have a good set of 4 rebuildable coil units because the wood boxes don't fit the main coil box or are split or broken then that is where I can help. My coils are not really rebuilt they are re-manufactured. The only part of my coils that are original are the windings which are recovered from coils that have poor wood boxes. We hypot test and temperature cycle original Ford windings and only if they pass every test as would a new winding do we then put them in a brand new hard maple box made to Ford drawings, here on file, along with the same correct capacitor that Ron and Brent will provide you with. We then fill the coil box with high melting point Tar just like Ford used except a higher melting point so as not to seep. We install new points and adjust the coil on our Strobo-Spark and then our coil is good to go too.

Collectively Ron, Brent, and I have the same goal. We want folks to retain the original T ignition system with coil, timer, and magneto since it is a unique type of ignition system used at a time when the T ruled the market. We want people to know that their T can run very smooth and be very reliable using 100 year old technology that has simply been restored with correct parts replacing worn parts. It is no great feat to convert an antique car to a modern car with gadgets and electronics but the history is then lost and for me most of the lure and fun is lost too. My T for me is my one big SHRIEK against technology that for me was my entire career. Nothing is more likely to last another 100 years than a coil that has already lasted 100 years. Copper doesn't show wear from normal current passing through it and abnormal wear can easily be tested for. I don't care where you end up getting your coils from but do keep your T running on coils and timer and you will have something of much interest to talk about with most any body who rides with you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Thursday, January 08, 2015 - 10:33 am:

To any and all "newbies":

Many other posters have reported that this is one of the better - if not THE BEST Forums on the 'net, and the previous post is one of the reasons for those opinions.

There are several very knowledgeable people who will graciously and willingly without and self-serving dialogue share their knowledge with any and all.

Some have come to "visit" here and for one reason or another have been afraid to ask questions....please do not be afraid - there is a collective wealth of knowledge available to you for asking....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Walker on Thursday, January 08, 2015 - 11:43 am:

It is no great feat to convert an antique car to a modern car with gadgets and electronics but the history is then lost and for me most of the lure and fun is lost too

Jon, you crack me up. This coming from the guy who makes electronic horns and voltage regulators and calls them fun projects.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, January 08, 2015 - 12:28 pm:

Here is a set of coils John made. These are the brass-top ones for an early '15.

coils

c2

It's some nice work, if you ask me. And yes, the coil box is rebuilt using his kit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Thursday, January 08, 2015 - 10:30 pm:

Without the VR the battery and generator have very short life. There is no modification to the generator required and you can convert the car back to a mechanical cutout in a minute and burn out your generator armature in the next minute after that cutout sticks open but the battery will be toasted pretty good too while you run it. There are tons of burned up generators out there all caused by cutouts. I have no quarrel with folks who run cutouts - it is their generator that is at risk - not mine.

All of the external parts of my horns are made exactly to Ford drawings and I tried to make the horn totally original but the cost of all the small brackets and fittings inside the horn motor made it impossible to make AND sell at any sort of reasonable price. Horn points don't last very long. My horns have the same sound and draw the same current as original. Unless you look inside or honk it every day for years you would otherwise not know it isn't original. It isn't perfect but it was the best I could do on the budget you guys gave me. If you can find an original horn that isn't all cobbled up inside you are very lucky. I have designs for things that I could offer but they would alter the character of the T and I decided not to make those things but if folks feel that I have harmed the reliability of T's or altered them in any way permanent at all then I have failed. I rewooded my coil box a few times and decided I could always rewood it again but I decided to do it different for now. I can put it back. The pieces are dimensionally perfect as per Ford drawings. There really isn't anything that can be made totally correct today and I don't try to hide that. I just try to make parts as accurate as possible from quality stuff and hope it isn't too expensive.

The very first comment ever published anywhere about my new horn was by a T owner who paid $199.00 for it. The subject of his post was "Well - I bought one of those overpriced horns..." He never heard it honk. He destroyed it with his grinder and welder before putting it on his positive ground T. He returned it to the dealer and got another and another. The dealer gave him 3 total horns and all were blown up in spite of the numerous stickers and warnings about it needing to be on a negative ground system. I talked with him and he told me emphatically that all T's were positive ground. I was able to put new brackets on them and replace the motors and they were sold as "blemished units" at swap meets without issue. He was given a full refund.

I should have stopped right then from making things. My wife sure wants me to quit. I don't make electronic gadgets to make money - I try to make things that are needed rather than gadgets. I try to make things that I hear you guys asking for. Oh well. I honestly think I need to get off this forum for awhile. Not permanent but I find myself getting an attitude and believe it or not Fun Projects is just for fun and lately it isn't.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Friday, January 09, 2015 - 08:36 am:

".....and lately it isn't......".

Sorry to read that.

Sorry for you, for us, and the country. There are things I have done - enjoyable things- and I have recently given up on them. People - the country is changing, and I am not sure it is for the better. Yes, we now have indoor plumbing and electricity for many but there are also many who do not "take responsibility for their actions".

Too many folks want too much "for free"...lawyers and politicians are enjoying the decline of civility.

John & others - hopefully the pendulum will soon swing back to a polite, caring & responsible society.

(The Paris, France suburbs are also suffering now....a shame what we as humans have come to...).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Kossor - Kenilworth, NJ on Friday, January 09, 2015 - 09:27 am:

John,
Your work, products, sharing of knowledge and dedication to the hobby serves as a great roll model which others, including myself, strive to emulate. That you can be very proud of and maintain your resolve should it ever waiver. Thank you for all you contribute to the hobby and the many fine products options you offer.

Be thankful you have not had to endure an obsessive barrage of blatant lies about your products when just starting out. That, does tend to have a discouraging effect. Fortunately, that Troll behavior has been suspended and no longer tolerated on this forum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Erbach on Friday, January 09, 2015 - 02:18 pm:

Hey John,
Please don't forget about us guys who are new to the hobby and appreciate your perspective and guidance as well as your GREAT customer service.
Thanks for checking out the voltage regulator that I dropped on the floor this week.
Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Walker on Friday, January 09, 2015 - 03:22 pm:

I am sorry John I didn't mean to say that your products wern't good. I am sure they are very good. I just thought that it was funny that a guy who sells electoronic parts and calls them fun projects would say that electronic parts take the fun out of the hobby.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Friday, January 09, 2015 - 09:52 pm:

John, i really hope you keep on making the great products that you make. I'm sure i don't just speak for myself when i say we need more people like yourself to keep our hobby alive and thriving.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell on Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 10:11 am:

John, Please don't get discouraged. You have helped me and many others. Remember every barrel has a rotten apple or two. That doesn't mean the whole barrel is bad.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Borland. Bathurst. NSW. Australia. on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 11:09 pm:

G'day John,

Too many people today would not be happy with a free million dollars, they would find something to whinge about it. For every one whinger there are fifty who appreciate your work. Thank you for your efforts, I for one appreciate them.

Peter


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Thursday, January 15, 2015 - 08:04 pm:

Nice to hear from you Mike. Happy New Year to you and yours.

Regards,
Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Friday, January 16, 2015 - 09:34 pm:

Dan, if you lived nearer to me I'd say to come over and we could dial them in on my strobo-spark. I can't tell you what a difference it makes. A buzz box adjustment or a "by ear" adjustment just wont cut it.


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