Help adjusting new coils

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Help adjusting new coils
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Wheeler on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 08:47 pm:

Have a 25 tt have new coils the point adjustment should be 1/32 , I do not have a coil tester do the vibrator bridges need adjustments for new coils?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 08:54 pm:

Please, need better information.... Have your new coils been rebuilt ?, New points only ?? ... What tells you your coils need adjustment ??

Bob Jablonski


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 08:59 pm:

Depending on who built them, they should require no adjustment. There are no accurate adjustments to be made with out either a hand cranked coil tester or strobe spark. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Wheeler on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 09:52 pm:

Just received new coils from Macs t500tw and t500wkt the gap is not the same on each coil?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By BRENT MIZE on Monday, January 05, 2015 - 10:19 pm:

Dan,
The points gap is only part of the problem with these particular coils. They suffer from several issues which include a primary core which is usually to high. This creates an alignment issue with the points. In addition, the spring cushion on the upper bridge is not correctly tensioned. This problem creates double sparks. The capacitor in these coils is also not robust enough for long term use. I always replace the caps on these even if they are brand new. These coils can be made to work ok, but not without a proper tester and the knowledge of what's wrong. I have rebuilt several for customers. They are a marginal coil at best and are not near the quality of a rebuilt Ford Script coil unit. The boxes in addition are usually too small to fit correctly in the coil box. They usually need shimmed to work properly.
Unfortunately, the old Ford coils are the best bet. Contact me outside of this forum if I can be of assistance.
Thanks,
Brent Mize
The Coil Doctor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 06:13 am:

Dan,

This is an area I have not done any real work on, but you requested my comments so they are attached below. If any of them conflict with what the coil rebuilders are saying (such as Brent above -- see his web site http://Www.coildoctor.com ) – go with what they say. I intend to use my “plan A” when I need coils -- purchase a set of good quality rebuilt coils that are properly adjusted. There are several good sources.

For a short video to help your understanding of T coils in general and the Strobo-spark specifically recommend you go to John’s “Strobo-spark” page at: http://www.funprojects.com/products/ct-1.aspx and click on the videos. It will help you understand things more quickly about “double spark” etc.

I believe adjusting coils is similar to some other areas of the Model T. Some things are very simple and require minimal special tools or knowledge. I can remove rust with a hand held wire brush, a wire brush and a drill, a nice grinder and big wire brush, or a nice sand blaster with a cabinet big enough to put an entire car into. (A friend of mine in Louisiana had one – but he also ran a monument company so he had access to the commercial version on the weekends etc.). And any of those methods would work. Some faster than others. And while some skill is required (especially if you are using a sandblaster on thin metal parts) in general any of us could use a wire brush on a frame or the front plate of the engine etc. and produce a good job.

But in the case of rebuilding the engine with pouring the engine babbitt and boring it to the correct size, grinding the crankshaft properly, boring the cylinder block and fitting over size pistons, planning the head if needed etc. it takes some very special tools. It also takes a lot more training and experience than “wire brushing the frame.”

I believe in the case of adjusting the coils it is somewhere in between those two jobs. It is easier to learn and less expensive to purchase the proper equipment than if you wanted to do your own engine rebuild. But for adjusting the coils you need a hand cranked coil tester (HCCT), motor driven coil tester, or strobe-o-spark (unless someone has recently discovered a way to do it without one of those). And you also still need to read up on how to do it. The instructions for how to adjust the coils on the HCCT are free on John Regan’s “Fun Projects” web site at http://www.funprojects.com/techinfo.aspx . Go down to the “Choose Document” fill –in-the-blank-window which the next one past the “Choose Product.” Click the down arrow. And save the file: Hand Cranked Coil Tester Operator Manual. While your at that location also down load the “Model T Ignition System – by Patterson & Coniff” which explains why the magneto does a better job than just the battery in powering the T coils. The article from the old days “Accurate Spark Timing by Murray Fahnestock” is good background information. Model T Ignition System – by Patterson & Coniff had lots of information – more than many of us will need. And also More on Model T Spark Timing – by Ron Paterson.

I would lean towards return the new coils if that is possible/practical and purchase a set of good rebuilt and properly adjusted original T coils appropriate for your car. But I will defer to the folks that know a lot more about that subject than I ever will. And I’m thankful they are teaching others how to rebuild and adjust the coils. If you are interested in learning how to rebuild and adjust the coils – ask them. Several of them are taking the time to teach others so the skill set is not lost.

Finally I have a question about the Model T coils. Situation: the magneto is not working (internal short etc.) and the person intends to run on battery until the engine needs rebuilding. Do the coils that run off of 6 volt battery power need to be adjusted at the same high level as the coils that are going to be run off the magneto?

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 06:14 am:

Dan, go on Brent's advice. A friend of mine recently got a set of coils from him, beautiful work and ran perfectly. Packing for shipment was exceptional. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By richard e moore on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 07:50 am:

Gee Kieth, you have friends ? I wonder who he is. Kieth's correct. I got those coils from Brent. Dropped them in and it ran like A champ. Will pick up 2 more in Chickasaw. Nice guy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 08:00 am:

Lol, Dan - Hap is correct. If possible return the coils you got and then get some from Brent. There are some specialized tools required and regardless of what Brent tries to tell you there is definitely an art form to adjusting the coils properly. It's almost voodoo really. I've had a set from Brent and they come perfectly packaged and beautifully rebuilt. You drop them in and it instantly makes a huge difference in how well your TT will run. In the end returning the ones you got and buying a set from Brent will be cheaper, faster, and will save you from a headache. In the end you'll just be buying a set from him anyway, skip all of the in between. =) Basically everyone on the forum will tell you the same thing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By richard e moore on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 08:38 am:

I got my coils from Brent. I played around with mine for to long even after KGB told me to many times to get new ones. Now I have them and after 500 miles I haven't even seen them since. The packaging was amazing. I saved the packaging to put my spares in. I should put a lock on the coil box. Heck if you touch my coils I'll kick your dog. Thanks again Brent. Go ahead and build me 2 more. I'll bring the cores to Chickasaw and pick the new ones up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 08:47 am:

Dan
The coils you purchased are made in Mexico, very poor quality and have been sold by some parts suppliers to Model T hobbyists for many years.
As Brent pointed out they can be made to work, but even then they fail quickly with open secondary winding. When I get these coils in my shop I throw them in the garbage.
There are three manufacturers of NEW Model T coils and only is a high quality product.
Suggest you return the coils, get your money back and buy a set of properly rebuilt coils or get a new set from FunProjects.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 08:50 am:

Hap
Regardless of how the coils are powered (magneto, 6 or 12 volts) there is no difference in how they are adjusted.
I doubt you will like the engine performance on 6 volts. Read my article at the FunProjects website entitled "More on Model T Spark Timing"
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 09:13 am:

That should read; There are three manufacturers of NEW Model T coils and only one is a high quality product.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph W. Rudzik on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 11:57 am:

According to the "BOOK," Murray Fahnestock recommends using two of the bottom bridge points held together which creates a gap at 1/32 inch. This works in the shop and the field and I have used with success. And, Yes, I do have hand crank coil tester in the garage.

Joe R.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 02:31 pm:

Geez, Dan asked what time it was and we tell him his clock is a piece of s--t! Its good that Joe answered Dan's question.

Since Dan was brave enough to ask a question, I would like to make a few (I hope useful) comments/suggestions.

Dan, I would Find a vendor who you can trust, who sells quality parts that are faithful reproductions of the originals, and who will eagerly discuss the best application and quality of those parts for your car.

The three vendors I rely on are Chaffins, Langs and Snyders, I know there others but these guys are Model T owners and students of the Model T Ford who depend on satisfied customers to stay in business.

The source you mentioned is one reseller who has decided to follow a "mass marketer of car parts" model, whose standards have drifted away from only offering top tier products. Price point marketing I think it's called.

If you follow and actively participate on this forum, you will, among many things, become educated about your car, learn from other members problems, and will discover how to find the best parts and services for you money.

I know that following the wisdom to be found on this forum has greatly increased my interest in and joy of owning and driving my Ford. I hope you will find this too.

At this point, I will respectfully relinquish my soapbox. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 03:07 pm:

The answer is a little more complicated than a yes or no. Lot's of people think that the gap HAS to be such and such and that if it isn't they should "fix" it. The coil doesn't work like a distributor. The gap is not real critical. Say you have a coil that is set up on a HCCT and is working properly, but the gap is .035 (or whatever), instead of the 1/32 that is specified. You go and start adjusting that upper bridge nut to get your gap and you will most likely change the tension in the cushion spring and you will end up with a coil with the proper gap but won't work worth a cuss. I see the above comments as trying to be helpful, not trying to belittle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 03:22 pm:

In my opinion Dan is better off for the advice he was given than an answer to the question he originally asked.
Don't buy this.
1
2
Ron the Coilman


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