Molasses De-rust and 'finishing'

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Molasses De-rust and 'finishing'
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin Konrad on Friday, January 09, 2015 - 11:30 am:

It seems old dogs are never too old to learn new tricks... Just learning about using this method. How about the 'finishing' methods/results??? Zinc primer?, acid-etching?, filler usage?, etc.
Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Howard D. Dennis on Friday, January 09, 2015 - 12:00 pm:

Marvin, I use Jasco Prep & Primer for rusty & new metal. I get it in quarts at my local Lowes store. The parts come out of the molasses brown and sloopy looking as if it didn't work. I then pressure wash them and they are so clean they start to re-rust instantly. I then brush on the Jasco and let them dry. I have parts that have remained in bare metal after this treatment for over 2 years without re-rusting.

Howard Dennis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin Konrad on Friday, January 09, 2015 - 04:03 pm:

Thanks, Howard!
OK, so I've got some apparent rust pits with the TT. It's OK to use a 'filler primer' then with sanding over the top of it?
I know that topcoat choices can run the gamut...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin Konrad on Friday, January 09, 2015 - 04:12 pm:

-Howard-
Acknowledging the fact of 1st using the Jasco P&P. How about the durability factor after finishing?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, January 09, 2015 - 04:38 pm:

one of the nice things about the molasses approach is you can dip/soak parts that have brass or aluminum attached to the rusty steel and it does not appreciably affect the brass or aluminum


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Howard D. Dennis on Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 12:39 am:

To be honest the only thing I've painted after the molasses treatment was my dash panel and it has held up fine for the last 2 years. Everything else is still in bare metal after the Jasco application and hasn't rusted yet.

Howard Dennis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 04:35 am:

Marvin, do yourself a favor and check out Rustbullet.com. It is a fairly new product but it works extremely well for prepping and protecting the bare metal. It also takes the place of epoxy-primer. The problem with bondo is the fact that it absorbs moisture if it is not completely sealed. After time the bondo will cause rust to form where ever it contacts the metal. Rustbullet prevents this common problem and will make your project last much longer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin Konrad on Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 08:45 am:

Reading about the Rustbullet product reminds me of POR-15, which isn't the easiest to work with at a home type shop. And I've still got the rust pits to contend with. Will try locating the Jasco P&P product. Surely, warmer weather will be necessary for the molasses to be viable. (And, up here, we're familiar with how 'quick' molasses IS in January...!)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 09:37 am:

Actually Marvin, Rustbullet is very easy to work with. The more humid it is the quicker it dries and requires only above freezing temps to use. It holds paint extremely well and the automotive silver/grey does not require any UV protection. It can be brushed, rolled and sprayed. It does have a odor to it and if sprayed a good auto paint mask is mandatory.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph A. Stearns on Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 11:28 am:

Hi Don, where do you purchase this Rust Bullet product? And, what is the price? Thanks, Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 05:55 pm:

Hi Joe, I order it thru www.Rustbullet.com and it was about 160.00 per gallon. Sounds expensive until you price epoxy primer. They guarantee it not to rust for 10 years if applied correctly and left outdoors.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin Konrad on Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 07:16 pm:

-Thanks, Don-
Can the RustBullet be sanded, or does it get as 'hard' as the POR-15?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 07:25 pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I07ra5_c1sM A comparison with the top brand rust protection coating systems. More videos can be seen at the www.rustbullet.com website.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 07:50 pm:

Marvin I used this method on all three Model T's.
1. Clean with abrasive pads or wire brush or sand blast and also "Metal Blast" for hard to reach places (ex; inside door channels and such).

2. hammered out all the dents and welded patches where needed.

3. Applied Rustbullet with a either a foam brush or spray (two coats).

4. Applied the feather agent (bondo).

5. Reapplied two coats of Rustbullet over the feathered area.



6. Wet sanded using 800 grit then 1000 grit and finally 1200 or 1500 grit.

7. Applied high build primer and sanded that.

Step 6 is optional but its what a guy does when he
has lots of time on his hands.

Rustbullet can be sanded within a day or two of being applied. But what you will find is it lays down extremely well and does not require much sanding at all. I also ground all the parts I'm spraying to keep static electricity from attracting dust particles.

This is my method and should mean nothing to anybody else. The main thing is to have the rustbullet suspend the feathering agent to seal it completely from the metal. Also coat both sides of the metal so moisture cannot creep thru and do its dirty deed.

A bonus to all this is the metal is also sealed away from the acid that wood has naturally in it.
We all have seen the effect of wood being in contact with metal and this will prevent that process.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 07:58 pm:

Here is a before and after picture of a pair of running boards. I used a 4" round abrasive pad on a 4" hand held grinder to knock off the dirt and loose rust. This is after two coats of Rustbullet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin Konrad on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 01:30 am:

Thank you, Don!!!!
I had been wondering whether one needed to anticipate any unusual problems. Your thorough explanation (and photos) are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 02:06 pm:

You are more than welcome Marvin, if you do decide to give it a try and have any questions just PM me. To add to this, I've actually had the steel nail holes fill in after applying Rustbullet. They were completely gone so I had to drill them out to put the roof wood on. Many of the pits were also filled in and required no filler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 05:03 pm:

Don,
I would like know, how far does a quart of Rustbullet go, on doing a '27 coupe body.(body, dash, fenders, splash aprons, running boards, trunk lid, rad. shell.) Or should I ask, how much would I need?

Do I need to do all my body filler before, or can I still do it after coating the parts.

Will it coat over brass plating? I have a radiator shell that someone plated with brass, and I don't want it to be brass.

Thank, Pat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 06:09 pm:

Pat, I just did a '26 Coupe and it took most of a gallon to do everything. Everything includes the entire body inside and out, the frame, axles, all the fenders and running boards, hood, doors and I also coated all the wood with it. That was two coats on it all. Very important that the Rustbullet is put on the metal BEFORE any filler is applied. Then once the bondo is feathered apply two coats of rustbullet over the bondo and it will be sealed between the rustbullet. Then you can use high build primer and finish with paint. As far as the brass goes, if that is what you want to do I would recommend you etch or sand with 1000 or 1200 to dull the glossy before applying the rustbullet. It should work just fine. I hope this helps.

Just a quick note that rustbullet seals wood also and the test results can be found on their website. If you want to check the job out

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/390601.html?1385415681


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 06:17 pm:

This is the link to the finished job.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/454172.html?1417554352


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 06:27 pm:

"Bondo" brand filler should not be used on anything anymore. It is obsolete, heavy, difficult to sand, and shrinks overtime leading to cracks. You should use a good modern filler like Rage Gold or similar.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 07:17 pm:

I guess I generalize the use of its name...It comes from growing up in the 60's and 70's. Please forgive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin Konrad on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 01:17 am:

Thanks, Don!
Your additional detail info is greatly appreciated!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 09:59 am:

Yeah, you are right Don I also throw around the name bondo in reference to filler....bad habit for me too. I now use rage gold or rage ultra.


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