Is my TT 1919?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Is my TT 1919?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Patterson on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 11:50 am:

Just picked up a TT with no paper work. The seller says its a 1919. It does have the worm drive rear and 23" wood spoke wheels with solid tires. I know the body has been reconstructed with enclosed cab and wood express box. No serial number on engine. Looks like rough casting where the serial number wood be. can anyone help me out before I start the paper work for a title?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 01:11 pm:

Is there a casting date to the right of where the engine number goes?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 01:12 pm:

High or low radiator? Pictures?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 01:13 pm:

There are a few things that might offer a clue:

1. Metal or wood firewall?
2. What year patent plate is on the firewall?
3. Do the rear end clam shells have a bead where the axle tube enters?
4. What style horn button does it have?
5. Is the rear chassis cross member the long or short one?
6. Are the running boards the long or short ones?
7. Tall or short radiator?

This list may assist in narrowing the possibilities, but it may result in a range of years not a certain production. Also, I'm sure others on this forum will have additional items to add that may help. Sometimes there's just not enough data to zero in with precision.

Post the answers here and we'll see what we can figure out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 01:20 pm:

One more comment:
I don't know what the rules in your state are, but intuition tells me you're going to have a hard time registering it without some sort of a "VIN". If it's not expressly prohibited in your state, once you decide what year it is, or at least what year you're going to use, you may want to stamp a corresponding year of production serial number on the engine before starting the process.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 02:17 pm:

Take the following pictures:
1 Answering the questions above;
2 From the front–radiator, springs, steering, axle (over all and separately);
3 Engine compartment from both sides;
4 With floorboards out–transmission, pedals, and back of engine;
5 From both sides–full view of the vehicle and close-ups of wheels and running boards;
6 From the rear–full view and details of springs, axles, & brakes.

Digital pictures cost the same whether you take one or a hundred, so if you get any that aren't sharp and well lit, shoot again until you get them.

There may be some things I forgot, but good photos of this list should pin it down to within three years, and maybe even to a single year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 02:26 pm:

Also, be aware that pictures have to be resized to under 194K to post on this forum. If you add more than two pics to your post and then do a "preview", don't be alarmed if some of your pictures just show up as small symbols, they will all show up properly when you do the final posting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 03:27 pm:

With all due respect, I wish people wouldn't equate picture size to the file limit. They are two different things and confuse people. The FILE SIZE has a maximum of about 194KB and has nothing to do with PICTURE SIZE. The picture can be as large as you want (within reason).

Stop telling people to resize the picture to achieve a smaller file. I'm sick and tired of viewing worthless little postage stamp photos.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 03:59 pm:

Ken, thanks for that clarification. Please provide your instructions on how to achieve maximum picture size and resolution while staying within the 194K file size limit, thanks! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 04:06 pm:

Ken,
Please give us a tutorial. I resize file size and accept whatever size pic I get. I didn't know I got a vote on size. Some of mine have been postage stamp size and some have been twice the size of the screen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 04:25 pm:

Hi Ken,

I would have to put myself in the ranks of the confused about file vs picture size.
My camera takes rather large size pictures which I enjoy as I can mouse over them here at the computer to look at details or features of a photograph. The file size is large.

When I have tried to upload them to this forum they often become quite small with a resulting loss of interest and appeal.

I am not much of a "computer guy" and am always so pleased that I haven't yet hit the "delete all files" key. That said, how does one reduce the file size without a resulting gross loss of picture size. We computer challenged folks would like to know.

Thanks in advance to the Tech Gods. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 04:28 pm:

Perhaps any suggestions about this file size issue should be in a separate thread as we have drifted far from: Is my TT a 1919?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 05:38 pm:

I believe this is the same Bill that posted similar questions on the MTFCI site. I responded there and he did post a few pictures. If it is the same one, I am glad to see him here also. He should get a good section of opinions and responses to help identify his truck. It looks like it may be a good one.
One thing I did not say there that I will put here (to hopefully help spur discussion) is that the photo showing a closeup of the side of the engine looks like it did at one time have a serial number. The whole area is badly pitted and looks to have obliterated the number stamping. This condition often occurs due to a water leak up high on the radiator that sprays water all over the side of the motor block. If this situation continues for several years of hard use? The pitting over about half that block side can be extreme. I had a TT years ago that had that problem.

Bill P, Do please post more and better photos here (and hopefully there also).
I am not computer-savvy enough to offer much help with photo posting. But I find photo re-sizing to be very easy for here. And if I can do it? Anybody should be able to.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 06:50 pm:

http://www.modelt.org/mtfcivb/showthread.php/802-1919-Model-TT-Express
His posting is in the TT section there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 12:22 am:

Thank you Mark G! I should have added that link.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Patterson on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - 08:23 pm:

Thanks Guys. Having a hard time posting pictures. Maybe I got it now.Engine TagFronttruckrear frontrear backR R Wheel


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - 08:31 pm:

One of the best clues is the one piece front spring clamp which is a 1920 or later item. I think the other forum covered that too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - 09:47 pm:

Hi Bill,

If you look at the first picture, the one of the engine and it's serial number pad, you'll notice a disk just aft of that pad. That is the casting date disk.
The numeral in the 12:00 position is the month. In the 8:00 position is the day of the month (looks like 17) and in the 5:00 position is the year which looks like 2x. Your picture has clipped off the second digit.

The front fenders are '17-'23 and the running boards are '26-'27.

Nice truck. Good luck with your project. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - 10:03 pm:

High radiator, or low? Some people can tell the difference from a picture, but I can't. Did you measure it?

I agree that it looks like there used to be a serial number that's been rusted away.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - 10:20 pm:

It is a low radiator (has the integral skinny apron strip) and the steel firewall has the ten holes for the coil box with the front mounted switch. This coil box does not have that switch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Blancard on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 - 08:33 am:

I can't add anything useful to the discussion, but I sure like that cab and bed. It reminds me of a caboose. Very cool.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Patterson on Thursday, January 15, 2015 - 06:02 am:

Thanks Bill H. The casting date disk shows at 12:00 (11) at 8:00 (17) at 5:00 (20). There is also a Briggs Body #161-33077 plate on the inside fire wall. Also, the seller gave me a car #463487 plate. Any info about these plates. Right now it looks to be a 1920 with the casting numbers. I may have a way to Title this TT.(I did it for my 32 Chevy truck.) Should I make it a 20? Thanks to everyone! CarNoBodyNo


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Thursday, January 15, 2015 - 08:35 am:

Hi Bill,

11, 17, 1920. That would be the 1921 model year. The Ford car number plate is the style of plate used in 1913-14, possibly a year or two later as well but I'm not sure right now (need more caffeine). I can't say why the seller included it with the truck but I doubt that it has any real connection to the body. The Briggs plate would be the number of the body itself and I recommend that you use that number when you register/ title your truck.

Your truck has a low steel firewall. Ford introduced that in early spring of 1923. The running boards are 1926-27. Having looked at the pictures here and the ones which you posted at the International site, I would suspect that your truck could be a 1923 model year.

Hopefully others will offer there input. Good luck with your project. Nice truck. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, January 15, 2015 - 09:09 am:

That Ford data plate is from a '13 or '14 model year car. That style was used at least into '16, but they quit stamping numbers on them about the beginning of the '16 model year. When they did stamp numbers on them, the numbers were higher than the engine number, so '13 or '14 for that one. TT's weren't made until late in '17, so it would not have come with that plate. I agree with Bill that the engine is a '21.

I can't see enough of the firewall in the pics here to determine whether it's a high or low one, and the pics on the other site are too fuzzy. We can see three vertical ribs in it, but I can't make out whether there are two more toward the outside edges. If there are two more, it's a high firewall. If not, it's a low one. (That's how I tell the difference; others know more about other details of them). The radiator shell has the '23-back apron, but that can be changed.

Really, any part of the truck (including the engine and the firewall) can be changed to another year's part, and they often were. So you can't pin down the year of any T by one part's year. But I don't think they would have swapped a high firewall for a low steel one; it's more likely that they would have swapped a rotted wood one (low) for a low steel one. That way the hood and radiator would still work. If it is a low firewall, you could call the truck a '23 and figure that the engine had been swapped at some time, or you could call it a '21 and figure that the firewall had been changed. Most of the other parts would fit those model years.


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