T2354 priming rod-copper plated steel.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: T2354 priming rod-copper plated steel.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Hagen on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - 09:20 pm:

Does anyone reproduce this priming rod? It was not made in brass originaly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - 09:31 pm:

I think it is 3/32 welding rod that is copper plated. John Regan had a comment on it before.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Hagen on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - 09:40 pm:

Do any of the vendors make a correct authentic one? I bet Larry Smith would know that answer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - 09:44 pm:

Mike Walker makes them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - 09:52 pm:

...and they are correct down to the number of wraps around the rod for the loop.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - 09:54 pm:

Yes, 3/32 copper plated welding rod is correct. Wrap the end around a socket to form the loop. A Google search should find a previous post giving exact measurements and how many turns to make on the twist.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - 10:32 pm:

I make them and sell them at swap meets, not through any of the vendors. They were always made of steel. The copper-plated ones are correct through the '16 model year, then raven-finished ones '17 through '25, and black-painted ones for the Improved Fords. I'll have some at Chickasha.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - 12:40 am:

I published my research on all the different version's of them way back when I was writing my "Archifacts" column for the Model T Times for the other club. They had the data online with the old web site. I didn't check to see if it was still there on the new one. I think that rod started out thicker than 3/32 as I recall but yes they were never brass. Funny thing was that I had a brass pull wire on my Stynoski winning 1911 Open Runabout way back when and before I had researched them the MTFCI judging guidelines said they were brass wire. I had the car on the show field for its AACA "first junior" and by then I knew it was wrong but had not changed it yet. As I stood there the chief judge was showing a bunch of new judges the ropes of judging and he pointed to my choke wire and said "take a close look at that choke wire since it is the only one on this field that is actually restored correctly..." I just stood mute and kind of giggled inside since I knew the next issue of the Model T Times was already being printed with my article exposing the error of that part as I made it. The main purpose of my Archifacts column was to expose some idea that we all held dear as in fact not being so. I found all gas lines were brass - nobody believed that one. I found that the 1912-1914 notched steering column hole in the dash was NOT a dealer done thing but left the factory that way. I made lots of enemies back then but it was fun and to their credit they changed the judging guidelines once they saw the data for themselves. It was just fun to find things that surprised us all. Did you know that the pin that holds the hand crank to the pan via the ratchet was in fact peened permanently in place on both ends all the way to 1919 model year? So the hand crank didn't come off so easily till after that. That was one that I really didn't want to find. Trent found it at the same time as I remember it and I think even Bruce was there when that came up. There were often 3 of us at the Henry Ford Museum back then and he too joked that this was not going to be welcome news. I had quit writing the column by then so I think it was slipped quietly into the judging guidelines. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - 06:39 am:

Ha ha John, about that crank pin maybe some things were better left un-discovered. =)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - 09:38 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - 10:34 am:

I'm looking at the print. The O.D. is 1 1/16". The finish mentioned above is correct. I have always made my own using a socket held in a bench vise. All you need is a pair of round nose pliers to help with the bending. Now, Mike says there is only a turn an a half in back of the loop. That is correct, but if you turn it 180 degrees it has two turns! Draw your own conclusions!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - 10:48 am:

I will never enter any of my cars in a show. I don't need to see trophies lined up all over the place. I like to drive my cars, and those who know me can verify that. I know what is right, and I'm glad I know that stuff, but there are certain things that make our cars easier to drive, and a removeable crank pin is one of them! If you have ever had to change a fan belt on a hot day with a hot engine, I'm sure you will most likely agree with me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - 10:58 am:

I think even the most die-hard originalists are willing to make some concessions to practicality. The removable crank pin is one of them. I'd stay with that, though, and forgo the snap-on version. When that spring breaks at the rivet, the pin falls out. You can probably guess how I know this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - 11:09 am:

Ahh..Steve...

We DO have something in common...one day the crank would engage but free spin without turning the engine...the rivet had rotted and who knows where the pin went...

I was of course near nowhere...so I walked into the local hardware store and bought a long hard bolt and a nylon cinch nut to get-er-done and get me started (it was the stem-winder). Now that you brought it up, I should go look once the deep freeze is over...I don't think that I ever changed it from the nut and bolt :-):-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Hagen on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - 11:50 am:

Mike, Do you ever make it out to swap meets in California? And if you don't can one buy one from you directly and have it shipped to ones house?......Thanks, Gary


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - 04:35 pm:

Gary -- No, I don't make it to CA to those swap meets, even though I'd like to some time. I reckon I could send you one thru the mail. Send me a message at waterwalk999@gmail.com and we'll get together on it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Sole - Castelldefels (Spain) on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - 06:06 pm:

I made my priming rod out of a coat hanger many moons ago. Recently I bought a brass one from one of the vendors, but would be interested in knowing what the loop diameter is, what the correct turns look like and how the end is really supposed to be connected to the carburetor.

Could you post a picture Mike?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - 07:02 pm:

Eric -- Here is a link to John Regan's "Archifacts" sheet with that information.

http://www.funprojects.com/pdf/ARCFX8.pdf

This and many other interesting documents are on his Fun Projects website.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Sole - Castelldefels (Spain) on Thursday, January 22, 2015 - 12:17 pm:

Ah, I see there are no turns at all to form the loop, so I actually came pretty close when I made the one out of a coat hanger.

Mental note: Self, you did good (proud pat on back) :-)

Thanks to John Regan and Mike Walker for bringing this Archifact to my attention!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Sole - Castelldefels (Spain) on Saturday, January 24, 2015 - 05:54 pm:

The pictures in the Archifact sheet show no turns behind the loop.

Larry, after re-reading this thread, I see you mention that there are 1 1/2 to 2 turns behind the loop.

Mike, how do you make them, with or without the turns?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, January 24, 2015 - 07:14 pm:

I use one full turn, no overlap. They have to have one turn to hold them together. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Hagen on Sunday, January 25, 2015 - 12:17 pm:

Hi Mike, Couldn't find an email from you. Thanks, Gary


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Sole - Castelldefels (Spain) on Sunday, January 25, 2015 - 04:08 pm:

OK, thanks Mike. I had soldered the loop on the one I had made years ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Monday, January 26, 2015 - 08:22 pm:

There really is no turn at all when using the 1/8" diameter copper plated steel. It was made just as I drew it up. Only later when the thing got smaller in diameter was it then wrapped.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, January 26, 2015 - 09:49 pm:

John -- So did you do a similar sheet on the later rods? I was thinking there was a drawing of the 3/32" ones which showed one turn around the rod. (?)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Monday, January 26, 2015 - 11:02 pm:

Yes I did.

http://www.funprojects.com/pdf/ARCFX9.pdf

Here it is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 - 09:00 am:

Yes! That's the one I was looking for on your website but didn't find it there. It's also the one I use as a guide on how to make the ones I do. Thank you!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 - 05:08 pm:

It wasn't there because I put it up when you asked for it yesterday.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter B. Ratledge on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 11:47 am:

Gary,The choke rod started in 1910 being a 3/16
copper plated rod.In early 1911 the size went to
1/4. In late 1911 it was changed to 3/32 and stayed that size for the rest of production. The copper plating was changed to raven finish in 1916.
I do not know why all the venders sell a brass
choke rod, because there was never a brass rod.
I have the drawing on the T 2354 rod.Dated Dec. 1910
I had my machinist make a exact copy for my 1911.
I have had a copper plated choke rod on my car for 20 years. I have never seen another one at a show.
Email me and I will put you in touch with the fellow that made mine. I think that he will help you.
John Regan did the research on the rod's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Sole - Castelldefels (Spain) on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 12:52 pm:

John, thanks for all the research and the drawings.

Now for another question: Did ALL Model T's come from the factory with the choke rod installed? I'm wondering if the starter equipped cars may have had the rod deleted, making it an optional extra.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 01:51 pm:

Eric

Yes, all T's had the choke rod out thru the apron on the later cars.

The crank was always there too. That crank without a choke rod would make it hard to start a cold T!

The later Model A came with a crank too, but was detached and a cover went over the hole.

Henry was stubborn on the fact of having redundant ways to start his Ford. Never wanted to leave the owner without the means to stem wind up a battery starter car should the battery be out of juice!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, January 29, 2015 - 11:22 am:

As I have mentioned before, I have the original print in front of me, for the later cars. It is 3/32, and the O.D. of the loop is 1 1/16". Depending how you look at it, it can be 1 1/2 turns on one side, and two turns on the other. Use a coat hanger, or 3/32" gas welding rod. I make mine in my garage using a socket and some round nose pliers, plus anything else to do the job. It takes me about 1/2 hour to make one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Thursday, January 29, 2015 - 04:05 pm:

Peter R:

The first rods were called priming rods probably because the carbs used on the early cars typically had a "float tickler" rather than a choke butterfly. Didn't you mean the diameter went to 1/8" I don't think it was ever 1/4"??


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